Re: Saved?

Let's look at another similar verse, again I want to post it in context though, so I'll underline the one I'm talking about:

Galatians 5:1–8, It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you.

The entire book of Galatians is all about not going back into the slavery of trying to earn your salvation through the law or anything else for that matter. Remember that again the apostle is talking mainly to Jews. Paul isn't telling us that anyone who is circumcised is lost. Like Jesus taught, Paul is trying to get them to see it's what's in their hearts that matters. If they (or we) are being circumcised (or baptized or anything else) thinking that it will save us, then we are going down the wrong path. When we do that, we're turning away from our salvation and once again trying to earn our way to heaven or prove our worthiness. The "Truth" that Paul is referring to is the Truth that salvation is through Christ alone and is a gift to us. We can't earn it or buy it, and no matter how perfectly we live our lives, before or afterward, we can never ever be good enough to warrant it.

Paul was fighting against false teachers that had invaded the church. These were proud Jews who are referred to as Judaizers and they taught that what Moses began in the old covenant and Christ added in the new covenant had to be finished and perfected by our own efforts, in particularly by circumcision. This is very much like what the catholic church does today in it's way.

Back in the days of the early church, remember too that these people had seen and/or experienced some pretty amazing miracles done by the apostles so it was very tempting to hang around the Christians and be part of them and profess faith in Christ. However, being Jewish it was also very difficult for them to put aside a lifetime of learning about the law. These people were ripe for the false teachers! In fact they remind me very much of what Jesus talked about in the parable of the sower, remember?

Matthew 13:20–21, The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.

Notice those words, "falls away" again? So what Paul is telling these folks that are torn between following Christ and following the law is that they cannot have it both ways. Christ alone saves, period. Just because they go to church and say the right things isn't going to help them in the long run. If they return to the law, even just to circumcision in order to be saved, then they have rejected salvation in Christ, and have placed themselves under the obligation of the law again. According to the law, when you place yourself under it, it means you are obligated to keep the entire law and that if you break the smallest of the laws you're as guilty as if you broke them all. Paul is reminding them of that in hopes that they'll realize again how totally hopeless it is and that the only way they can really be saved is through Christ. Paul was contrasting the way of grace vs law, and/or faith vs works, as the means of salvation.

We know that Paul and all the apostles taught that salvation was a free gift and through Christ alone. We know they said it couldn't be lost. We can see from all this that the people who are doing this weren't ever really saved. They had been exposed to the faith, they had been told about salvation, they'd seen the miracles confirming it's truth, and they understood what was being said. But they just couldn't get past their fear that "what if/maybe we need to do this other too". Again it reminds me of the catholic church and the hold they have on many people through fear. That's why Paul called it slavery and bondage. So these folks are what the bible refers to as apostates. The very same kind of people that Hebrews 6 talks about. People who have been exposed to the truth of the Gospel and then knowingly turn their backs on Christ. That's the definition of an apostate. Just like the people in Hebrews 6, these people had been part of this church and had witnessed Christ's ministry in the lives of all the other believers there, but then refused Christ alone. That's what "tasted of the heavenly gift" and "shared in the Holy Spirit" and tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age is talking about. Notice once again the words, "fall away" in this passage as well.

Hebrews 6:4–6, It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

As John MacArthur puts it: "They came to the very doorway of grace and then fell away, back into their works-oriented religion."

There's one other thing though that I think is really important about this. I think many of us at one point or another worry that we have somehow done this ourselves, and we wonder if we can still be saved or if we ever really were. I know that I went through this myself. Well there's one easy way to tell if you've done this or not. Notice that Paul says it's impossible for them to be brought back to what? To repentance. So what is repentance? Remember this verse about it?

2 Corinthians 7:10–11, Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter.

So repentance is a godly sorry that before we're saved brings us to salvation and after we're saved produces an eagerness to clear ourselves, to be free of sin, and concern that we might have sin or that we have sinned.

You see, someone who is apostate doesn't feel godly sorrow about it. They don't long for salvation. Instead their sinful nature usually prides itself on being followers of the law or how good they are by themselves etc. They don't have doubts or remorse or alarm about what's happened. Nor do they desire to change it. So if we've done something that we think might put us in this category, but we are feeling just awful about it, who or what do you think is making us feel awful? Our sin nature? hardly! It's the Holy Spirit and the only way the Holy Spirit can be making us feel that way is if He is dwelling within us! Therefore you can be sure you haven't committed this sin if you're feeling godly sorrow.

If we are longing to be restored and be in communion with Jesus again then that's a sure sign that the Holy Spirit is at work in us restoring us at this very moment. We can then know that all that happened was that we fell out of fellowship, that we stopped "abiding in Him" or weren't "remaining in Him" during that time and that now the Holy Spirit is helping to restore us so that we can once again abide in Him. Or to put it another way, so we will once again be plugged into the source--Jesus!

Re: Saved?

Yvonne said: 

Could someone please Explain this Scripture? Heb 6.4

 

Yes I can hon, but I've done a bible study on it already and even posted some other good ones on it. Let me give you a link to that and then I'll try and give you a "short answer". This is exactly the kind of question I was hoping someone would ask on the saved bible study thread. LOL

Falling Away? A Study Of Hebrews 6

Ok, to be honest, this is/can be such a difficult passage to explain adequately in a few words, at least for me lol, and I'm pretty tired right now, so I'm just going to post what some commentaries say for you here. For more info please go to the link I provided ok? And then if it's ok with you, I can merge this with the bible study thread, saved, and we can continue it there when I'm more up to it tomorrow ok?

Keep in mind the rules to studying the bible: it must be read in context with the book/chapter and the whole bible and the bible never contradicts itself; when it seems to we look to the rest of the bible for the answers.

Though a cursory look at this text might lead one to think that Christians can lose their salvation, that idea is not the issue. These verses instead speak of the need for believers to persevere in the Christian faith. The verbs “enlightened” (v. 4), “tasted” (vv. 4–5), and “became companions” (v. 4) describe persons who have professed Christ and claim to be believers. To “have fallen away” (v. 6) means to commit apostasy. The writer of Heb admonished his readers not to go back to the OT sacrificial system because Jesus is superior to it in every way. If they were to turn away from Christ, repentance would be impossible because it cannot be found anywhere else once Jesus is rejected (10:26–27). By their actions, such persons disgrace Christ openly and try to re-crucify Him. If they forsake faith in Christ after having professed it and go back (i.e., do not persevere), they never were actually saved to begin with (see Mt 10:22; Mk 13:13).
The Apologetics Study Bible: Real Questions, Straight Answers, Stronger Faith

6:4–6. This passage does not teach that one can lose his salvation through disbelief or apostasy. These verses refer to a hypothetical situation whereby the author stresses what would happen to a saved person if he could fall away. The author does not believe one can lose his salvation, or that his readers had (cf. v. 9); but he so speaks to demonstrate the folly some might have in imagining that they can turn back to Judaism without suffering loss. Though the author is not writing about his readers (v. 4, those), he still is writing for their sakes (v. 9, you). If they shall fall away is the translation given to the fifth participle of the passage. This is a legitimate and even common grammatical usage by the author within the warning passages (cf. 2:3; 10:26; and even 6:8). The first four participles refer to actual blessings whereas number five describes a potential situation, and so can be translated unlike the first four.
The important point about Hebrews 6 is that it agrees with the general tenor of Scripture concerning the security of the born-again believer. One basis for the security of the believer involves the promises recorded in God’s Word (vv. 18–20; 7:24, 25; 8:12; 10:10–14; John 10:28–30; Rom. 8:28–39; Eph. 1:13, 14; 4:30; Phil. 1:6; 1 John 5:13). Yet, an even stronger basis for security is found within the nature of the new life God gives. Though conversion involves man’s will, it is God’s will that produces regeneration (John 1:13). Thus, salvation is infinitely more than a decision that one can make and then break. It is the work of God that transforms one from darkness to light (1 Cor. 4:4; Col. 1:13), from death to life (John 5:24), from a child of the Devil to a son of God (Rom. 8:14–17). It is a completed, regenerating work (10:14; Eph. 2:8—“You are saved,” or “You have been saved and stand saved”—Greek perfect tense).
King James Version study Bible

The author of Hebrews does not suggest in these verses that apostasy or falling from salvation is possible. Rather, he provides the strongest possible argument for the impossibility of reinstatement to salvation if one were to fall. The hypothetical spiritual experiences about which the author speaks are clearly those of a genuine believer. Enlightenment is followed by tasting the heavenly gift and sharing in the Holy Spirit. Even the powers of the coming age have been experienced by these Christians. Indeed, the initial phrase of v. 6 could be translated “and having fallen beside.” Again the case is hypothetical, referring to the biblical truth that if one could fall from salvation, he could never be saved again. The fact that there is no thought of an actual forfeiture of salvation may be seen elsewhere in Hebrews (cf. 6:19; 10:14), as well as throughout the remainder of the N.T. (cf. Eph. 4:30; 2 Tim. 1:12; Jude 24). Actually the author of Hebrews is confident in the profession of the recipients of his epistle, as is indicated by v. 9.
Believer's Study Bible.

The explanation even in most of my commentaries is very long and involved as this is an important passage so again it would be better for you to read that study and then I'll merge this and we can discuss it tomorrow ok?

Re: Saved?

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvonne2u2 Sanctification is the consequence of justification and is dependent upon a person being in a right relationship with God Could you further elaborate for me the statement above. I have heard a lot of different things in regards to Sanctification, but don't understand it a whole lot.

Basically justification is when we are declared holy by God at our salvation; and sanctification is what happens after we've been justified and is when we work out our salvation like that verse tells us to, putting what we've learned in God's Word into practice in our lives and therefore living righteously.

DEFINITION OF JUSTIFICATION: Being declared righteous by God.
The Evangelical Dictionary of Theology defines justification as “to pronounce, accept, and treat as [righteous], and not . . . liable, and, on the other hand, entitled to all the privileges due to those who have kept the laws.” It declares a “verdict of acquittal, and so excluding all possibility of condemnation. Justification thus settles the legal status of the person justified.” It makes a person, as has been commonly said, “just as if I’d never sinned.”
CENTRAL PASSAGE:
Romans 5:1, Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,


DEFINITION OF SANCTIFICATION: The process of spiritual growth toward the character image of Christ.
CENTRAL PASSAGE:
1 Thessalonians 4:3, It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;
Perhaps the central passage in Scripture that describes this process is
Philippians 2:12–13, Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
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Does that help?