Monday, February 24, 2014

Bible Study Chat 8

Eva wrote:

I have some thoughts about this this period of time.
I know sin is the root of the bad life some people live.
But when you see people you know. People you grew up with choose the evil and you understand whats going on and they dont, its possible to feel sad.
It breaks my heart that my parents rejected Christ. Before they use to fake it. Now they dont. They dont even come to church and pretend to be Christians (I know that aint good either, but they might have a chance to listen to something and keep it in their hearts. Instead of that my father was fooling people that he was a believers with loud "amen" and very very loud "prayers". He came 1-2 times to church after his surgery , only to show the pastor that he was there because he visited him at the hospital, and after he never came again. He lies he cannot afford the gas to go there, but he's everyday at the center of the town (13 khm from his house) from the one supermarket to the other with my mother for shopping. The pastor tried to talk to them on phone but they dont even answer it when they see his number. And much more... It breaks my heart. And they still wonder why their lives ain't good enough. I keep praying for them. I know God gives them opportunities to know Him, and he is patient and waits and knock their doors. But they dont answer...
It breaks my heart....
I see also people that I know from before going from bad to worse because of their choices...
Also a school friend (that I have mentioned before at other threads), that survived cancer starting drinking much alcohol only some weeks after her last chemotherapy. And her mother says nothing about this... And much more. And it breaks my heart.
I see people at work doing their best to prove that "they are somebody". And they are always looking bad. Not even a real smile after the make up. Not even a proper "Good morning", only some whispers...
Why? It breaks my heart
On Christmas period we sold almost every single cell phone that was in the store, and almost all the expensive games like playstation 3 etc. And the boss said he didnt make enough money. Why?
I read an article about some immigrants from Pakistan in Athens. Kids, not adults, some young boys from 12 -16 that make sex with Greeks for two euros in a park in Athens. I hate that. And it brakes my heart
I keep on praying. I know God listens and answers... But if people dont want to listen to Gods calling nothing would change. He always calls them, they refuse to answer. And it breaks my heart.
Just some thoughts....

 

Yes, sin is awful and the fact that you see it this way is yet more proof that you are saved, because only through the Holy Spirit do we see this. When we are first saved, sin doesn't seem so bad. We know it is because God says so, but we don't really, truly feel it's all that bad...not all of it. Sometimes some sins even feel good and unless we are thinking about how God sees it, it's hard to see it as bad. We really don't understand it.

But the more we grow, the worse sin looks to us. Any sin. It doesn't matter if it's a single curse word or someone having homosexual sex. It's just plain bad to us and we know the pain it brings. Worse, at that stage, we seem to see sin everywhere and in everyone we see.

Then, suddenly, as we continue to grow, we realize that same sin is in us! All that sin we've been condemning in other people is in us too! And it now begins to feel really nasty to us. Like we've rolled around in a lot of dog poop and eaten some of it too. We can't get it off ourselves fast enough and it tears us up inside that we are still sinning and in the same ways all those other people are. By now, sin seems so very nasty and dirty to us, that we don't want to hear it or see it, or be anywhere near it at all....
We begin to realize just how much the Lord has changed us and done for us, and can't wait for Heaven so we won't have to deal with sin any more.

Sin is like a germ that causes a disease. It's very contagious. When a person sins, even something that we would consider a very small, little sin, that germ of sin begins to reproduce itself in that person more and more until it infects them completely, causing them to continue to sin both in the same way as before and in other ways. At the same time, that sin that's infecting that person is contagious to other people, just like many diseases are. If other people around the sinner don't have a strong, healthy Spirit, then it will infect them too. (the way we make our spirit strong and healthy is by studying God's Word with Him and praying daily. Romans 12:2 —Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. etc.)

The unsaved don't have a chance at all. They are all infected with sin already and totally corrupted with it -just as we were when we were first saved. But at that time, Jesus made us clean with His Word and it's His Word that keeps us clean and helps us get and stay strong so we can continue to defeat sin in our lives.

If you see sin like that, then you can see how it is impossible for the unsaved not to sin and impossible for them not to sin a lot. They are infected by sin and it's corrupted their whole bodies, minds and spirits.

It's just as impossible for the saved not to be infected and sin IF they are not being cleansed and renewed and strengthened by God's Word every day.

For those who are reading God's Word and praying daily, they will still get infected with sin at times, but because their spirit is kept strong by God's Word, it won't be as often and even when they do sin they will be able to stop, confess it and be cleansed and renewed all over again. You could say that it's through His Word that we are fully dressed in the armor of God which helps us avoid many sins, prevent others, and stop those that do catch us off guard so we can confess them and repent and be cleansed and renewed again. And the more we practice the better we get at it too.

Bible Study Chat 7

Fearnot wrote: In looking back at some of the painful events in my life, I now see God was with me, and used it for good eventually. In some cases it helped me to become more compassionate.

 

I think that one of the biggest beliefs that Satan made sure that we humans would lose, is the idea that God is sovereign. As long as humans held onto that belief, they had at least some sort of "God-consciousness". I mean that they at least had some idea that God was part of their every day experience. Very few people in the so called "civilized" world today though, understand that God is sovereign or what that really means. When I think about it, I think the most simple way of seeing it is to say it makes you aware that "God is God and I'm not". In other words, it makes you realize that there are many things you will never understand and that no matter how well you think you're able to control your life, it's all just a fantasy because the only one that's really in control of your life is God - not you.

When you read the Bible, you see all through it that the people back then had this understanding. They sometimes got a bit mixed up on the specifics, but they did understand that God was in control of every single little detail in their lives and everyone elses.

People today, especially don't like that idea though. Even "Christians" will fight you on this because they don't like to admit that God would allow evil things to happen, therefore they say that proves He isn't involved in people's lives. That simply shows that they don't have a very good grasp of what the Bible actually teaches though.

We hate it when a little child suffers and dies or is raped or murdered or dies in an accident or any other horrible thing that could happen. For someone to state "it was God's Will" then, is a good way to get their head knocked off. While it would certainly be insensitive to say something like that when loved ones are grieving, it is none the less the truth. Nothing happens that is outside of God's Will. But we have to also understand that "God's Will" takes into consideration both the things He causes as well as the things He allows, and that because He allows something, it doesn't mean He likes it.

Because God is all knowing, all seeing, etc, we can also say truthfully that it's His predetermined will. He knows what choices each human will make before they make them, but that doesn't stop Him from giving them a chance to do what's right and so evil happens.

In today's world, we're very quick to blame God for the bad things and forget to thank Him for the good things. We often hear people cry, "where was God when..." for example. It's one of the few times in today's world that we'll actually admit there's a God. After all, we don't want to have to blame ourselves that's for sure!

The difficult part for Christians, for you and me, is to recognize that we God is working out His predetermined Will in our lives every second of every day. We cannot change His predetermined will, even by not believing in it! All we can do is choose whether or not to cooperate with Him. And that's the one thing that will make a big difference in our lives and how they turn out. If we choose to cooperate with Him, things are a bit easier for us. I don't mean that bad things won't still happen - they will, but we'll know who to turn to, where to go and how to seek wisdom about the situation and what our attitude should be and He will give us His peace even as we go through it. We'll have His peace and guidance during it so we won't be walking "blindly" through life and just "hoping for the best". Instead, we'll have a goal to strive for, a God who loves us dearly and will help us in every way He can without interfering in our growth.

There is one other way it will make our lives easier when we cooperate with Him though. Generally, when the Lord is trying to teach us something, He will continue to put us in circumstances where we have to use what He wants us to learn, one after another, until we finally learn it. Each situation will be different, but the attitude we need to display, or the characteristic we need to use most, will be the same in each situation.

For example, if He's trying to teach us about forgiving others, we may find ourselves in circumstances where someone has hurt our feelings or stolen something from us, or done something that we think is mean, so that we can practice forgiving them. If we choose to fight the Lord and not forgive, then we'll find ourselves in yet another circumstance where something like that happens. And so it will continue. Eventually we'll wind up as bitter, angry, hateful people, until we finally choose to forgive.

BUT, if we're paying attention and we know the Lord is working with us about forgiveness, then it won't surprise us when we suddenly find ourselves in a position where someone has hurt our feelings or something like that. (and even if we do get surprised, we'll know who do go to to find out what we need to do) We'll realize what the Lord is doing and we'll "pass the test" because we'll forgive the person with His help. Then, because we've passed His test, we can know that it's over and we won't have to face another similar situation. (Oh, I'm sure eventually we will, because people are constantly doing things that we need to forgive, but that particular trial or test will be over) I don't know about you, but I much prefer only having to learn a lesson once!

This bring us to yet another part of the problem with the attitude most people have in today's world. We really do think we're smarter then God. Seriously, we do. If we really understood that God was God and we're not, we'd realize that He really does know what He's doing and not keep trying to manipulate people and situations so things turn out the way we want them, because we're afraid that the way God wants them to turn out won't be as good as the way we want them too. Now, whenever I catch myself doing something like that, or thinking about doing it, I imagine a squirrel or an ant arguing with me about the wisdom of where I intend to plant a bush or something like that. An ant or squirrel being smarter then we are, would be ludicrous wouldn't it? Of course! Well so is the idea of us being smarter then God! What's amazing is that God puts up with us and doesn't just squash us out of existence!

What this all shows us is that in order to feel secure and be at peace in this life, it's imperative that we find out just who God is and what He's like. I mean, if this God who's sovereign is a mean, fickle God who's just playing games with us for His own amusement, we might as well throw in the towel right now. We lost the game before it started. But, if He's a loving God, why then we have a chance, right? And the more we find out about Him, the more secure and a peace we can be in our lives, because we'll fully realize that we really can trust Him. Which brings us yet again to the only way we can learn about Him: through knowing all of His Word and through prayer. The better we know it, the better we know Him. But like I told the young man in apologetics yesterday, we can study his word till we're old and grey and not understand it or know Him at all. God has made it so that only those who sincerely want to know Him, and who ask Him to reveal Himself to them, (teach them) are able to actually understand His Word and get to Know Him.

You and I know that our God is a loving God who is always righteous, just, true, perfect, complete, gracious, merciful, kind and all powerful -among other things, and He never changes. He's not one way today and another way tomorrow. Therefore whenever we go through trials, disappointments or even tragedy, we can accept it all as part of His divine plan for our life knowing that eventually it will always lead to His glory and our good. We don't have to know "why" and can accept not knowing because we know Him and that He'd never do anything to harm us and that He works out everything for our good. So we accept it and keep on keeping on, with our focus on Him and not on ourselves or the "problem" because we know He's already taking care of it.

This is something that's very interesting and edifying to reflect on because there's just so much truth tied up in God's sovereignty, and it affects us in so many different ways.

 

jackswife wrote:

AMEN Cindy!
At GriefShare do you know what they said the #1 lesson we learn from grief - That we are NOT in control. That God truly is
I see so many expressing that negative attitude about God you spoke of- something happens let's blame God. The flip side of that attitude is that those who are quick to blame Him for the death of a loved one or a natural disaster usually are unwilling or unable to credit Him for the good.
As you talked about, it's not really a question of is God sovereign. He is. It's a question of can we trust in His goodness and mercy. And after all I've been through in my life, I can say that while I don't understand it all I still can trust in His goodness

Praise God! Honestly Jackswife, not a lot of people can truthfully say that these days, because a vast majority don't really know Him, they just know about Him, and a lot of what they "know" isn't even true, it's just what they've heard from other people.

And if anyone read that part about redemption, it really goes along with this because it shows one of the way God uses these things. I've found over the years though that often even when I think I know "why" something's happened, I really don't know it all by any means. I think most of the time, the Lord uses our day to day experiences in many ways, most of which we most likely won't know about in this life time.

For me one of the passages in scripture that really pointed this out to me was when a man cursed David. One of his body guards was angry and wanted to take care of it, but David stopped him and reminded him that if the man had cursed him it was because God had allowed it, so it was His Will. That story starts at 2 Samuel 16:5. Many years later the man was punished for it because it was a sin, even though the Lord had allowed it at the time. The Lord was giving him a chance to do the right thing, but he chose sin instead as we all often do. Anyway, I think that particular story opened my eyes to just how the much the people realized that God was in control during that time, since having someone curse you isn't really that big a deal. At least compared to what most of us would consider saying "God's in control" about, that's just a little thing. And that's really the point too. He is in control of every little thing as well as the big things. Which is why it's a sin to complain about things that happen to us. That particular passage is the one that also helped me begin to really understand that as well. For if God is in control of everything, and we complain about something that happens to us, what we're saying is that God made a mistake - or that He's mean and shouldn't have allowed that, etc.

It's really amazing, at least to me, how interconnected everything is with God's sovereignty.

Bible Study Chat 6

Fearnot wrote: That was absolutely wonderful!!!!!! Thank you soooooo very much!! It was so uplifting, so helpful to see the truth about our hard lives. I think I even felt joyful...imagine me feeling joyful! I am actually so glad I lived long enough to read that!!!

 

ol, you're such a sweet heart! I DO imagine you joyful Barbara. In fact, I know that what you felt was just the beginning of the amazing joy the Lord has for you hon. And that joy you felt is available to you all the time - right now, every day. Ask the Lord for His Joy, and ask Him daily to help you to remember the things you read that you need to know, that are good for you, and He will. Ask Him to remind you of those helpful things you've read when you most need to, and again, He will. That's one of the things the Lord loves to do for us and all we have to do is ask. So many of us do without and only because we haven't asked....

Whenever I read something that really inspires me, I'll copy it and read it over again, sometimes every day, until I've totally saturated my mind with it. It's kind of like good medicine for our minds, since it's one of those things the Lord tells us we're to think on. So that's why I do that.
After my mind is overflowing with it, I'll then think of a few words to describe what the main theme of it is and write them down and stick them in places around the house where I spend the most time to remind myself of them. I leave them there until the next thing comes along like that and then change them. It's a great way to reprogram your mind with the things of God instead of the things of the world. Right now the words I've got laying around the house are "Be content and thankful always".

I'm so glad that it was helpful to you though hon. You're such a wonderful person and I know the Lord was thrilled that you felt His joy from it!

Fearnot wrote: 

I read most of it to my husband yesterday and he thought it was great too!
So I am going to re-read it.....joy now, but even more to look forward to, joy evermore, ever growing, ever delightful. Wow!

Go for it! God bless you both!

 

jackswife wrote:

I wish I could remember where, but I recently heard that Job is the oldest book in the Bible. If so to me it becomes even a more significant book to study because it means that mankind (or at least someone) was wrestling with the question of suffering and why God allows it before they felt the need to record anything else- including the Creation story.
Nobody much likes to suffer. I sure don't. But God in His wisdom sometimes understands that we often learn more down in the Valley than we do from the Mountain Top. Everyone- saved and unsaved, faithful or not- have trials in this life. It's what we do with those trials- turn to Him or turn bitter- that shape our lives the most

Eva wrote:  Thank you Cindy! This thread is a Christmas gift for me! You know I have studied Job on my own some time ago. Now its time to have all my questions answered :) Thank you

 

You're welcome!

I've just got to share this piece about redemption that I'm reading in another book with you guys tonight:

Redemption is about faith. It's about trusting that God can and will do all He says He can and will do.

Redemption doesn't mean you stand in triumph over your circumstances. And it doesn't mean that the "new" makes you forget about everything that happened in the "old" (although in heaven someday these light and momentary afflictions will pale in comparison). Redemption is about the confidence that God is bringing good out of the bad, prosperity out of desolation. God's not interested in evening things out; He's interested in taking those things which are so painful, earth-shattering, and devastating and turning them into marks of His goodness and kindness.

Moses was a shepherd for forty years, but God redeemed his experience in the desert. He gained a knowledge of the land that would be vital because he spent the next forty years leading the children of Israel through the same desert. David spent his childhood learning how to defend sheep with meager weapons. God redeemed his defensive skills as he shepherded the people of Israel, slaying giants with small stones. Luke had an obsessively ordered and detailed mind, but God redeemed it, enabling him to record in a logical way the ministry of Christ and the early church. Paul spent years studying and memorizing the Torah, and God redeemed that knowledge as he became an apologist in the midst of Jews and Gentiles alike.

We often think God is in the business of swooping down and plucking us out of our circumstances. He rescues us to be sure—from sin and death and hopelessness. But His rescue incorporates those sad, tragic, devastating circumstances we want, in the moment, to see removed. In redemption God takes the shattered blocks of our lives and slowly, methodically, but faithfully, puts them back together in a way we couldn't have imagined at first. In the end there is something new and different, and yet it's made up of those same pieces of life that once looked so broken on the ground.

"You planned evil against me; God planned it for good" (Gen. 50:20). That's what we are confident of when we believe in redemption. We are confident that God is always at work, in big and small ways. He's working inside of cancer. Inside job loss. Inside suffering of all kinds. God is at work, constantly redeeming. He's taking the crumbling remnants of our lives and putting them back together.


Kelley, M. (2012). Wednesdays were pretty normal: A boy, cancer, and god.

Bible Study Chat 5

Fearnot wrote:

Thank you Cindy. I have said to myself that if our children need to go thru the tribulation to be saved then so be it. It is so hard to think of the suffering they would have to face, but if it meant they would be saved in the end, then indeed so be it.
Still, I so hope they don't have to. I am especially thinking it may be Michael, my sweet, kind, compassionate one. However, I didn't realize how stubborn he was and is, until the last 10 years. I knew my daughter was stubborn from the day she was born, but at this point in time, I think she is the one closer to being saved.
So this was really good for me to read.

 

I've been trying to figure out how you got that from what I last wrote...the only thing I can figure is that you related "trials" to the Tribulation....is that it? That's fine too...I guess, although it's not at all what I was talking about lol

I was actually talking about people like us, just regular folks who've been through a lot in their lives. The world tends to think that because we've had a hard life that that's a "bad thing"; they see it as more like a curse then anything else and feel bad for us. Like we got the short end of the stick. But Christians, as they become more mature in their faith, won't see it that way at all. They'll understand that we're among the privileged in God's family. Many are given the chance to be among His privileged, but not all of them take advantage of the wonderful opportunity the Lord's given them, because they get stuck in the world's way of thinking that it's "bad". Those of us who finally "get it" though, we're at the top of the class. We're the ones that God is going to bless with a future so greatly, so tremendously beyond anything we can even dare to imagine! We probably won't see it in this life, although we may begin to, but most of that wonderful future the Lord has planned for those of us who've discovered that He was blessing us and not cursing us, will begin the moment we step into eternity. And honestly, I prefer it that way. After all, what happens here will only last a very, very short time - especially compared to eternity. So given the choice of having a billion dollars here for a few years, or having it there for all of eternity, I'll take eternity any day!

Whenever we finally began to get a glimmer of understanding that what the world calls "our hard life" has actually always been a blessing, is a day that's probably written in red and circled on the Lord's calendar, as the angels and saints all rejoiced for us.

If we can only remember that God teaches the opposite of what the world teaches, that can be helpful, as it can help us to keep our eyes open to the real blessings like "our hard life". It's our hard life that drew us to Him, that drew us into His Word to search for meaning and answers, so that we finally began to grow in our faith. All those folks out in the world today that have relatively easy lives are the ones to be pitied, not us! They have nothing to draw them to the Lord and His Word. They're content with their lives and they're not hurting. So really, they're the ones we should cry for.

The more trouble, pain, sickness, and hardship we have, the closer we draw to the Lord. The more hurt, grieving, and broken hearted we are, the faster we run to Him, the sooner we open His Word, and the quicker we are to bow before Him and hand Him the keys to our life, making Him Master and Lord over it instead of ourselves. Oh, there's generally a few keys we hold back from Him, often unknowingly, but eventually, we turn them all over to Him and can then rest knowing as Paul learned, that to live is Christ and to die is gain. (
Philippians 1:21 —For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.)

All those folks with the nice easy lives, they can't say that. For them, death is loss. it's loss of money, loss of their standing in the community, loss of power, loss of what they built in this life, loss of possessions, etc. So they fear death and will do all they can to avoid it. For us though, death doesn't mean loss. it means gain! HUGE gain! Because we don't live for the things the world does as we know none of it will last. We understand that as long as we have Christ, we have everything and that without Him, we have nothing. Nothing at all.

That's what Jesus was talking about when He said that those who love their lives will lose them. All those folks with the easy comfortable lives are going to die and lose all they had. They can't take any of it with them. All they could take is Jesus and they don't have Him.

Then, Jesus said of us, that those who lose their lives, will actually fine it! He means that when we give up control of our lives to Him, make Him Lord so that "to live is Christ", then we will gain everything we could ever want and more, because it all belongs to Him. Think of it this way: Jesus is King of Kings and the Father has given all things to Him. He owns the universe, this world, every human, every piece of land, every building, every person, every rock, tree, bird, animal, everything, right? We can't see that physically now, because this is our time to learn and grow and it's why the Lord told us to walk by faith and not by sight. However, when we get to heaven, THAT'S when we will see what it all really means; and
when Jesus returns to judge the earth we'll be with him and THAT'S when the rest of the world will see what it really means!

When we get to Heaven we discover that Jesus really meant it when He said in His Word that we were heirs to all that is His. That means everything! Everything in heaven, on earth and in the universe is ours! Not just for a few years, not even just for 100 years, but for all of eternity! Now, listen again to what He tells us about that.
Romans 8:17 —Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. * Notice that He didn't say that if we had a nice pleasant easy life here, we'd have a share in everything in Heaven, but "if we share in His sufferings". (read 1 Peter 4:12-19 too)

This is what will be rewarded to each of us during the Bema Judgment that we've talked about before. For those us us who the Lord has blessed with a "hard life" here though, and have turned to Him because of it, we will receive such tremendous blessings as rewards that we can't even begin to imagine it! Do we live in tiny hovels now? We'll have a grand beautiful home for eternity! We're our relationships with family members not the best? We'll have the best, most wonderful family we could ever hope for to be ours for all eternity! Did we have to go without many things in order to provide for our family? We'll never have to go without anything again. Were we sick or in pain for a long time? We'll have the best, most beautiful bodies that are perfectly healthy and will never experience another pain or illness for the rest of our lives, which will stretch on into eternity, forever. Of course, some of the things I mentioned, like the new bodies will be given to everyone, but other things, won't be. We'll be among the privileged few who will receive things too wonderful to imagine.

So for us who have had a hard life and turned to Him and who live for Him, it may look to the world as though we lose the things in this life that we love when we die, but that's because they can't see into Heaven. There, all the things we love in this life, will be replaced for us, only without the problems that go with them! Because we have Christ, we gain the whole world! Those who don't have Him, lose it all for all eternity.

So, we give Jesus the keys to our life and live for Him, meaning we no longer live for the world, we live for Him. So we "lose" our lives here by doing that. But when we do that, we find out that we've actually gained a much better life and the whole world will be ours.
.

Philippians 1:21 —For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.

Matthew 16:24–27 —Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. *For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. *What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? *For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. *


Matthew 10:39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. *


John 12:25–26 —The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. *Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.


Luke 17:33Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. *

1 Peter 4:12–19 —Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. *But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. *If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. *If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. *However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. *For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? *And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” *So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good. *

Romans 8:17 —Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. *

Bible Study Chat 4

Fearnot wrote:

That was an excellent reminder!!! I am soooo glad you explained that to me awhile back. I think Christians sometimes get to thinking God doesn't love them when they are suffering in one way or another ( physical, financial, mental, etc.).
But I know now that is not true. I may not always understand why God allows this or that pain in my life, but no matter what, it is not proof He doesn't love me.
I heard somewhere that sometimes God allow things to be taken away , so that He can get our attention, to spend time with us.
The fact that the war is a battle for our minds seems so critical. I guess it started right in the beginning of Genesis with satan getting Eve to doubt God's words in her mind.

 

Bless you! Yes, that's when it started for sure. I feel so sad when I hear people asking God to take away their worry or fear or anxiety etc or to give them peace, and then when it doesn't happen they think God hasn't answered them, but His answer's been in His Word all along, they just don't realize it. It's really made me realize just how badly we humans have messed things up and how very badly corrupted our minds and hearts are.

If you don't mind, I'd like to go off subject just for a bit today to share something that's been on my mind from my studies today. I've studied the OT recently and am now on Solomon's life. As I was studying this morning, it came to my mind that Saul, started out very well, but then wound up going his own way, and got further and further from God until the Lord finally took the Kingdom away from him. Solomon also started out well, loving the Lord and following Him, but like Saul, he began to put himself and what he wanted, above the Lord and fell further and further from Him. Intestingly, David, who had such a hard life, stayed close to the Lord in his heart and mind. Although he sinned, just as we all do, he always repented sincerely and tried to do his best to make up for his sins.

Like most parents, David, because he'd had such a hard life, wanted the opposite for his sons. Maybe that's why he was such a bad parent. But regardless, his life had been filled with war, battles, poverty and want, so he wanted the opposite for his sons. Instead of spending the money he accumulated, he saved it for Solomon's use so he could build the Lord's temple without any problems. He made sure that everything was in order in the Kingdom before he died so that his son could inherit a peaceful kingdom instead of one at war. Sounds good right? Isn't that what most parents say? We want better things for our children then what we had? After what I've studied lately though, I'm not sure that's such a good thing after all. Especially when I compare what I've studied with what I've seen in life now.

Anyway, Solomon had great amounts of money and accumulated more then anyone ever had. But what did he do with it? Yes, he built the Lord's temple...spent 7 years doing it. But then he built a palace for his Egyptian wife which took 13 years to complete because it was so extravagant! And he continued to build. He had close to 1000 women in his harem (which was of course against God's law) and eventually they pulled him away from the Lord. Oh, he still sacrificed to God and went through all the right motions, but his heart wasn't in it, so it did him no good. He wound up losing the Kingdom for his disobedience just as Saul had. What a shame...

So here's a man who most would say had the whole world in his hands. He had everything anyone could ask for. But because he disobeyed the Lord and continued to do so without repenting, he lost it all. But the man who had had to fight, both literally and figuratively for everything, David, he on the other hand, had and maintained a close relationship with the Lord all through that time.

It makes me think of what Jesus told us: that we cannot serve both God and money, that we can't serve two masters. Funny thing is, I bet if anyone had asked Solomon, he would have have told them they were nuts if they'd suggested he was serving money or anything else besides God. We tend to make up lots of excuses and lies for our actions, and repeat them until we believe them ourselves.

That's why God tells us to examine ourselves regularly, with the help of His Word and His Spirit. Without His Word and Spirit, we can't learn the truth about ourselves. That's why going to a secular counselor makes no sense. If we lie to ourselves, (and we do!) and if we cannot know our own hearts because they're so corrupted, then how in the world is another human being who is also lying to themselves and corrupted going to help us??? They can't! All they can do is fill us up with yet more of the world's "wisdom". What we need, what Solomon needed, is God's Word and His Spirit to reveal to ourselves our failings so we can repent and walk in His ways. This is another reason we're told to ask God for wisdom concerning this. It makes me wonder how different things would have turned out for Solomon if he'd only done this. Or, if he'd gone to another godly man and asked for his help in this. For that's another way the Lord says we can find the Truth, and that's to go to someone who's spiritually mature and ask their help. The Lord knows that sometimes we simply cannot see the forest for the all the trees and need someone else to help us. But He never, ever, tells us to go to someone who isn't saved, and who doesn't know and believe His Word and obey it.

We need to be so very careful about what we allow in our minds and hearts, and need to reflect on our lives and our relationship with the Lord regularly to be sure nothing has gotten by our guard when we weren't looking, so to speak. Solomon, in all his wisdom however, didn't do this.

I've often wondered how he could be so wise and yet fail in the most important thing in his life - his relationship with the Lord. I realize now that although the Lord granted his request for wisdom, He gave him that wisdom the same way He give us His peace, and Joy, and the way He takes away our fears and worries. Solomon had the capacity for great spiritual wisdom, but in order to gain that for himself, he would have had to study and reflect on God's Word and applied it to His own life, and continued to do that. That's where he failed, as many of us do. In fact, that was even one of God's laws that Israel's kings were supposed to do, and still he didn't do it! Pretty good warning for us, wouldn't you say?

So far today studying though, the Lord showed me that it's often those who's lives aren't all sweetness and light, that have the closest relationships with the Lord. Those of us who've gone through great trials are often the ones who because of those trials have turned to the Lord and been saved and learned how to live our lives. I know from my own life that trials can be a tremendous blessing. That saying that "it's not about what happens to you that counts, but instead it's about how you deal with what happens to you" is very, very true! How blessed are those who because of trials draw closer to the Lord no matter how hard it is to do so! I'm also now re-evaluating some of the things I pray for my own children. I'm no longer interested in their lives being "easy". All I want for them is that they have a close relationship with the Lord, and if that's going to take trials, or lack, then so be it.

Bible Study Chat 3

Fearnot wrote: 

Ever tho Satan can only be in one place at one time, can he use technology to keep track of millions?

What you said about the best way to hurt a parent is thru their children, made so much sense.

Thank you ahead of time for what I know will be another great Bible study!!

 

Can he use technology? I suppose if he possessed someone he could use their body to do so, but that would be kind of silly for him to do, since he's already much more aware of what his own plans are and how well his worldview is working etc. While he's a created being, he is ancient as far as the number of years he's been alive and the amount of experience he has. Therefore he's much smarter then we are in that way as far as evil is concerned. On the other hand, we have the mind of Christ, so we can understand things he can't. He knows scripture quite well, better then many Christians, but just like the pastors who are unsaved, he can't really understand them and of course doesn't believe them. He twists them to suit himself, since he believes he's got a chance to win the war. Although his mind has been corrupted by sin and evil, he does have a greater capacity he can use then we do, since he was an angel prior to his corruption. (but once we're in heaven, we'll have that larger capacity to use our brains to their full potential too, and ours won't be corrupted!) So all in all, he's a formidable foe, one we could never hope to outsmart or win against on our own. Thankfully, we don't have to, for our Lord has already won the war, Satan just doesn't realize it yet. Thankfully for us too, the Lord protects us from him and fights for us. Our job is to stay alert and not allow any thought that's not consistent with His Word to be in our minds.

That's where the war really is - our minds. That's what he wants to control and what he did control before we were saved.
We'll see that constantly as we study Job. The last part of 2 Corinthians 10:5 is a scripture many Christians think of as odd or unimportant. Almost any Christian can quote the first part of it, but most totally ignore the last part of it, because they don't have a clue what it means or how vastly important it is to spiritual warfare or our lives. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that most Christians would say that it's something that can't be found anywhere else in the bible, which leaves them continuing to think it's just something they can't understand at best. The fact is, as you well know, that there's more about this in the bible then almost anything else, and it's foundational to our new life in Christ!

For those who are unaware of what scripture we're speaking of, it's
2 Corinthians 10:5 —We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. * In reality, that scripture isn't about two separate thoughts, it's all one. Any thought that doesn't agree with scripture and any false or unsupportable claim (pretension) automatically is something that sets itself up against the knowledge of God and must be demolished within our minds.

For instance, the thought, "God doesn't love me" sets itself up against Him and knowledge of Him, as it often serves to keep us from reading and studying our bibles and talking to Him. Why would we talk to someone that we think hates us or at least doesn't love us? Therefore God says that thought must be demolished. If you look up that word, it means
"To do away with completely; put an end to; to tear down."
So how do you do that to a thought? Well, a thought is really the same as an "argument". If you have the thought that God doesn't love you, you also have reasons (regardless of how silly or untrue they may be) that you think this. God says that we are to totally tear down that reasoning and we do so the same way we'd try to win an argument about something with another person. We tell ourselves all the reasons that statement and each of our arguments for it, aren't true. And we use scripture to tell ourselves the truth about how God feels about us and why those thoughts aren't true. By doing that, we're making our thoughts obedient to Christ. Remember, Christ is the Truth.

Once we have demolished that argument and made our thoughts obedient to Christ concerning that subject, from that point on, whenever that kind of thought comes up in our minds (and it will) we instantly take it captive. We stop the thought in it's tracks and we don't allow ourselves to think it anymore. At first, we won't be able to stop it until the thought has gotten all the way out, but as we continue to do this, we'll soon be capturing that thought even before it's completed in our minds. After capturing it that way (stopping it), we then immediately make our thoughts obedient by replacing it with the Truth. In this case the truth is that God loves us.
We might replace it by reminding ourselves of
1 John 3:1 —How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! *or perhaps by reminding ourselves that He loved us enough to die for us when we were still his enemies (Romans 5:10).

Speaking of being His enemy before we were saved, do you remember what He says about how we were His enemy?
Colossians 1:21 —Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. *

Pretty amazing huh? Are you beginning to see why this is foundational to our new life in Christ? We can go back all the way to Genesis when Adam & Eve sinned, and see that it was their sin that caused their minds to become corrupted, and that corruption was passed on to their children and eventually to us. That's why no one who doesn't have the Holy Spirit's guidance can understand God's Word. It's not because God cloaked just His Word in some kind of mystery to them, it's because of Adam's sin. It caused our minds to be so corrupted that we simply cannot understand God or anything about Him or His Word without divine intervention and help.

Adam and Eve had been able to understand before they sinned, but once they sinned, their ability to understand was gone. They tried to pass on to their children what they knew about God and His ways, but because of that corruption, not everything they taught their children was 100% true. Then as each generation was born, that truth got twisted even more as they got further away from the ones who had originally walked with God. And so mankind devolved away from our creator and His Truth, becoming more and more evil in His sight.

God in His mercy though, planned from the very start to save us from sin and from ourselves, and give us a life of victory here and now if we'll only obey His Word. We've been born again into a war, and that war is for our minds and hearts. The bible often speaks of our minds and our hearts but usually only uses one word to mean both as that's how the words in the original language actually translate. So often when you read "mind" in the bible, in our day it would actually mean "mind and heart" (or the other way around) because it meant the whole person - their thoughts and feelings.

Enough of that though. For any who aren't aware of how to take their thoughts captive and need more information about it, there's more on the thread
Taking Thoughts Captive which is actually a very condensed short study that I wrote as the original and even the 2nd more condensed versions were quite long.

I did feel I should address this yet again though since it is relevant to Job, even though Barbara and Eva have a good understanding of it, because it's so very important for our lives today. I would hate for anyone new to read this thread and not understand about this.

Bible Study Chat 2

Fearnot wrote:

I am so glad you wrote about Job and the celebrating of his children's birthday.
Because somewhere along the line, some bible teacher had suggested that when Job said: "“Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” that Job was sinning.
I never felt comfortable with that idea, but not until you explained that verse, have I been able to know the truth. I don't really remember why the bible teacher thought Job was sinning, but I vaguely think I remember it was because he was doubting God after he had intrusted his children to God.....something like that.
But like you I thought it would be wonderful to pray for my children and grandchildren's sins to be forgiven. Since I have heard Christians can pray for their children to find a Godly mate etc. But to pray for them daily concerning their sins seems even more important.
I am so happy you are starting this today. I was having a bad back-slidding, feeling a heavy depression today. So this was perfect. And as usual, in part, growing old, hurting a lot more lately, the grand kids leaving for 2 weeks etc. all added to the sadness.
This is so uplifting. Thank you!!

 

I'm glad this was helpful for you. That's great!

You know you don't have to accept those kind of days hon. Instead, God tells us to take our thoughts and feelings captive. Our feelings come about because of our thoughts. So we change our thoughts to align with God's, and can then choose to be happy in Him, instead of giving in to ourselves and being depressed.
I've had to do that a lot lately too because of Sunny's death, as has Bruce.
Not that it's wrong to grieve for something like that, it's not. But it is sinful to wallow in it. Time is way too short to allow that anymore.

I can't imagine where that teacher got that from. I've checked numerous commentaries and there's nothing like that even suggested in any of them.


In the next part of Job, we get to see Satan in action. Job 1:6 —One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. * Here we see that Satan had, and still has access to heaven. Remember that Satan is also called "the accuser" and "the accuser of our brothers" (Rev 12:10). Something to remember is that although we have an "accuser", we also have an advocate, Jesus! Every time Satan accuses us of something before the Lord, even when it's true, Jesus stands there and reminds him that our sin is already paid for and we belong to Him! So whenever our thoughts begin to accuse us, we should do the same thing: remind ourselves that our sin has been paid for, we belong to Him, and there is no condemnation for us who are in Christ!

He tells God that he was roaming around the earth. We see that in other verses as well, such as when we're told he prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour (1Pe 5:8). Notice too that "he's seeking", he's looking, which again shows us that he doesn't know everything. He can't because he is created just as we are. Only God is omniscient. (another good reason we aren't to pray to angels or so called "saints".)

As we talked about before, Satan is a created being, just as we are. He cannot be in more then one place at a time. But to listen to many Christians, you'd think he could since so many accuse him of harassing them. Satan's not interested in us though. He's going to go for those who might change the world. He tends to leave the rest of us to his followers, the fallen angels, or demons. That's not much consolation, but it's some lol. Generally Satan and his demons aren't going to bother with us unless we somehow invite them to do so. Unless we do that, they're most likely to remain pretty much unaware of us. Unfortunately, many of us have invited them into our lives by becoming involved in the occult at some time. Many more are doing so now and don't even know it because they've changed the names to make what they're doing sound as though it's something "Christian". (like contemplative prayer, etc)

However, even when we've given them an opening into our lives, the Lord in His mercy will still save us from them if we will but ask. He will even firmly close that opening and not allow them access at all if we repent and ask Him to. So there is no reason for anyone to ever feel as though they cannot escape Satan's minions. As you know, I can say this from personal experience, as I know you can as well.

In this case however, God points Job out to Satan and kind of brags about him. Satan then turns around and tells God that the only reason Job is such a godly person is because God's protected him all these years and blessed him so much. Satan suggests to God that if He were to remove His protection and allow Satan to have his way with him, that Job would immediately turn against God. Well, God wasn't going to let that challenge go by without an answer! But, let's look at those verses so you can see them for yourself:
Job 1:7–12 —The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.” *Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” *“Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. *“Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. *But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.” *The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

By the way, there is no truth in the idea that God was cooperating with Satan in any way in any of this. God has His own reasons for doing things, but we know that He never "cooperates" with Satan in any way. What this shows us though is that Satan can do nothing to anyone without God's permission. God is always in control. He is sovereign. Even if we invite Satan into our lives, he cannot harm us in any way or mess with our lives at all, unless the Lord gives His permission or simply allows it. As we talked about before too, when God does allow it, it's for His reasons, not Satan's. And we can be positive that God's reasons ultimately will work out for His glory and our good. We have no reason to fear Him, because He loves us enough to die for us.

So, here's Job on earth. He doesn't know anything about what's going on in Heaven. He's just living his life as he always has and has no reason to suspect that things are about to change dramatically. The same is often true of us as well. Not that Satan has a bet with God about us, but simply that we often forget that when we're saved, we become soldiers in a battle, not tourists on vacation. The same was true even during the OT times.

What Satan was really saying to God was that no human being would worship Him, unless God made it worth their while. In other words, he was basically saying that God had to pay us to worship Him, because He really wasn't worthy of that worship. So the one reason for all that's about to happen to Job was to put an end to Satan's blasphemy and prove that a person would honor God even if he had no earthly reason to do so. Since we know that everything works out for God's glory and our good, we can know before we even read the rest of this book that this is true of what's going to happen to Job as well. So we can be sure that God didn't allow this to happen just because of Satan's bet, but that He had other very good reasons as well, reasons that would benefit Job if he continued to live his life honoring God. Of course, as we said though, Job wasn't aware of this.

Please notice one other thing about this whole scene so far too. Notice that God did not find anything wrong with Job, only Satan did. Too often we seem to get the idea that God is in Heaven watching us closely with a pad of paper and pen so He can "keep score" and note down every little sin we commit and then "pay us back" for it. As though God was "out to get us" somehow. Kind of like a glorified, adult view of Santa Claus - that we'd better be good - or else! But that's not the case at all. We need to constantly if necessary, remind ourselves, that God loves us! He loves us so much that He died a horrible death for us personally, and not only that, He did that when we still hated Him! So the idea that He's out to get us, doesn't fit with the Truth. The Lord who died for us and who cannot wait to show us around Heaven, is not out to hurt us! In fact, the Truth is, when Satan accuses us, he's really trying to hurt God.

Satan hates us, because he hates God. He wants to hurt God, and what's the best way to hurt any parent? Go after their children. So that's what Satan does. So when we think we're under an attack, instead of wondering if God is out to hurt us, we need to remember that this is all about hurting God because He loves us.

We can't always know why something's been allowed to happen to us. Sometimes we're simply not going to get an answer until we get to Heaven. Just as I don't know why Sunny had to die instead of God healing him again, or why my children were sexually molested when they were little, or why my mother had to die when I was so young, or why I wasn't raised in a Christian home, etc. What I can know, and what we can all know, is that there was a good reason, a reason made based on a deep, abiding love for us that only wants what is for our very best.

The next verses start telling us what Satan does to Job, so we'll look at that next.

 

Bible Study Chat 1

I thought I'd start a thread for a continuing bible study with Barbara, and Eva and open it up to anyone else who would like to join us. It doesn't matter how far into the "study" we are when someone joins, as you can always just start with wherever we are at the time. So don't be shy! If you love to study God's Word and are interested in doing so with others, come on in and join us!

You guys mentioned studying Job, which is interesting since it incorporates growing older, suffering, sin and friends So why don't we talk about all three, using Job as a guideline?

Job 1:1 —In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. *

The word that's translated "blameless" in this sentence, is also translated as "perfect" in some other versions. The meaning of that word in the original language is that they were "mature" in their faith. So in other words, Job was spiritually mature and upright. He did his best with God's help to live according to the ways of the Lord. He was not sinless! We can know that both because the word in the original language does not mean that, but even without knowing that we can know this because the Bible tells us that "all have sinned", and "all" includes Job.

Here are some of the many scriptures that tell us that everyone has sinned: (you don't have to look these up unless you want to) Rom 3:9; Rom 3:23; Rom 1:28–32; Rom 11:32; Ecclesiastes 7:20; Gal 3:22; 1 John 1:8–10; 1 Kings 8:46; 2 Chron 6:36; Job 15:14–16; Psalm 143:2; Prov 20:9; Isaiah 53:6; Isaiah 64:6; etc. I shared those simply to show that this is one important way we can always find the truth. We should never base a decision or belief on just one scripture. If it's true, God will state it throughout His word.

That's how false teachers fool people. They'll list a scripture or two and say that it supports their viewpoint, but if you look up that scripture, you'll find that it either doesn't say anything at all about what they're saying, or that while it could be interpreted that way, the rest of the bible doesn't agree with it. What has really surprised me in the past is that often I'll look up a scripture, especially ones the catholics post to "prove" they're right, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject that's being talked about! There's other examples of how this works on, How to Read, Study and Understand the Bible

The next few verses in Job tell us that he had 10 children and about all the livestock he owned, as the more you owned in those days, meant you were very wealthy. It tells us he was the wealthiest man in all the east. Right after that though, it tells us about some of his habits, showing that God was more important to him then money or wealth.

One of the things he did regularly was to make sacrifices for his children so that their sins would be forgiven, even though his children were all adults by this time. That seemed like such a great idea to me that ever since reading that, I've prayed for my children and grandchildren's sins to be forgiven every day.

More then that though, it also shows us how important it was to Job that he live his life in such a way that his children would see the importance of maintaining their integrity and not living a life of sin. He obviously must have spent a great deal of time with them as they were growing up teaching them about God and His ways. I say this because according to the scriptures, his children were well aware of this and cooperated with it, as part of his habit was to have them each purified or consecrated again each time they'd had a celebration. Here, let me quote that for you so you can see it for yourself:

Job 1:4–5 —His sons used to take turns holding feasts in their homes, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. *When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would send and have them purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular custom. *

Some versions translate verse 4 as saying that the children held these feasts on their birthdays, as the words in the original language say "on their day". Since he had 10 children, that's a lot of birthdays! This makes it even more special that Job would offer sacrifices for them and have them consecrated to God again after each one, and again, shows how important it was to him that his children be in a good relationship with God at all times. What a wonderful way to grow up that must have been! They were taught that there was nothing more important then God and could see in their own father that his relationship with God was the most important thing in his life. I think the Lord included this in His Word to show us a little of what it would look like to follow His commands of how to raise our children. His children obviously enjoyed each others company too, if they were always inviting each other to their homes. It shows too that even as adults the children still obeyed their father and did what He asked of them. That's yet another good example of a godly family life.