Bible Study Chat #33

Let's finish the rest of chapter 6 now:

Job 6:8–30 (NIV)

⁸ “Oh, that I might have my request,

that God would grant what I hope for,

⁹ that God would be willing to crush me,

to let loose his hand and cut me off!

¹⁰ Then I would still have this consolation—

my joy in unrelenting pain—

that I had not denied the words of the Holy One. 

Job was asking that God would finish whatever He's started in him.  He was saying that he preferred death to this constant pain and sickness and his grief.  He was not suicidal though. That thought never crossed his mind.  He didn't mind asking God to take his life, but he would never take it himself. He was also saying that if God would kill him now, at least he could be consoled to know that he had not purposely sinned against God by word or deed.  By saying this aloud, and allowing his friends to hear how he was feeling, he was also trying to make them aware both of how horrible his physical and emotional pain was and how certain he was that he had not sinned.. 

¹¹ “What strength do I have, that I should still hope?

What prospects, that I should be patient?

¹² Do I have the strength of stone?

Is my flesh bronze?

¹³ Do I have any power to help myself,

now that success has been driven from me? 

Here he's saying that he isn't strong enough to overcome what God has decreed for him. He was also letting his friends know that they couldn't possibly understand what it was like to wake up each morning in such physical pain, knowing that it wasn't going to go away.  He felt his life was hopeless.  ‎

Because Job had chosen to dwell on these kind of thoughts, he forgot that although he might not have that kind of strength, God does and God will use His strength to help us! Job had been brought to the end of himself, but he still wasn't looking to God to carry him the way God want us to.Instead, Job wanted God to do what he thought was right and best.  He wasn't willing to allow God to be his strength, to carry him through this trial, and be all he needed.

Zech 4:6 —‘Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the Lord Almighty. 

1 Cor 1:25 —‎For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength. 

2 Cor 12:9 —‎But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” 

 

¹⁴ “A despairing man should have the devotion of his friends,

even though he forsakes the fear of the Almighty. 

 

Job wasn't saying that he no longer feared God, He did still fear Him.  He was only saying that everyone needs a friend regardless of where they stood with God.  He was saying this because his friends were still insisting that Job wasn't right with God because they felt he'd sinned. So in effect he was saying, "even if you were right, which you aren't, I still need friends to help me through my despair.". Our Lord agrees with this, which is why He has placed us in the body of Christ and made each of us members of His family.  He wants us to love each other and bear each others burdens, not make them worse.

¹⁵ But my brothers are as undependable as intermittent streams,

as the streams that overflow

¹⁶ when darkened by thawing ice

and swollen with melting snow,

¹⁷ but that cease to flow in the dry season,

and in the heat vanish from their channels.

¹⁸ Caravans turn aside from their routes;

they go up into the wasteland and perish.

¹⁹ The caravans of Tema look for water,

the traveling merchants of Sheba look in hope.

²⁰ They are distressed, because they had been confident;

they arrive there, only to be disappointed. 

 

Here Job is finding ways to describe how unreliable and unhelpful his friends are to him.  To put it all in terms we would understand better today, he was simply saying, "you guys are no help to me at all; all I wanted was a little sympathy, not some great miracle of deliverance!" He was letting them know that when he needed them the most, they were not only unhelpful, and unreliable, but had actually become abusive.  They'd been great friends when he had lots of money and was healthy, but now they seemed to think they were better then he was.

²¹ Now you too have proved to be of no help;

you see something dreadful and are afraid.  

Job says that his friends look at him and are afraid.  It's possible that his sickness had so disfigured him that it caused his friends to fear, which is one way to look at this.  It's also quite possible though that his friends were afraid that the same thing might happen to them that had happened to Job, which certainly sounds reasonable. Or they might have been afraid that God would punish them the way they thought He was punishing Job, if they sympathized with him.  Lastly, they may have thought that Job wanted them to give him money or help him financially..

²² Have I ever said, ‘Give something on my behalf,

pay a ransom for me from your wealth,

²³ deliver me from the hand of the enemy,

ransom me from the clutches of the ruthless’?

Here he has told them that he's never asked them for anything before, and that he wasn't asking for a handout or a loan now, so they had no reason to fear.  All he wanted was sympathy.

       

²⁴ “Teach me, and I will be quiet;

show me where I have been wrong. 

Now Job challenges his friends to show him where he sinned, to show him where anything he's said is wrong, and show him what he's done to deserve the suffering he's going through..

²⁵ How painful are honest words!

But what do your arguments prove?

²⁶ Do you mean to correct what I say,

When he says that they treat his words like the wind, he's saying that they don't pay attention to anything he says to them.

²⁷ You would even cast lots for the fatherless

and barter away your friend.  

Job isn't saying that his friends have literally done these things, he's suggesting that what they're doing and saying to him is the same thing as if they were doing something like treating an orphan like something to purchase -merchandise.

²⁸ “But now be so kind as to look at me.

Would I lie to your face? 

Now Job asks them to "look at him". He wants them to really look at him and see him as the same person he's always been.  He had never lied to them before, and he wasn't starting to now.  He wanted them to stop thinking of ways to defend their argument, and really look at him and see how distressed he was.

²⁹ Relent, do not be unjust;

reconsider, for my integrity is at stake. 

³⁰ Is there any wickedness on my lips?

Can my mouth not discern malice? 

He's telling them that while he's been open and honest with them, and that should be obvious to anyone, that it's just as obvious that they're being spiteful toward him.  He's saying they are being heartless.

 I think many of us have been in similar situations where we've been misunderstood by people we thought were our friends, just as Job is here.  So we know how much it hurts to have a friend turn on us.  Now, on top of all that Satan has already done to Job, instead of having friends to comfort him, his friends have turned on him, adding to his pain.  

This seems especially true of people who call themselves "Christians". Often when a brother or sister in Christ is going through a very hard time, the people who should be comforting them, turn on them and accuse them of either having some secret sin or of not having enough faith.  Those of us who live with chronic pain or illness, have often had this happen to us.  Part of the reason for it is due to the false teaching of the Word of Faith and other similar groups, but part of it is simply due to people's sin nature. Not only that misery loves company, but the sin nature loves to make us think we're better then someone else.  It's certainly the opposite of how the Lord tells us to act when someone in the body of Christ is hurting, isn't it?

Bible Study Chat #32

We've talked a lot over the years about how God commands us to take our thoughts captive and replace them with His Truth, and I've given you hundreds of scriptures over the last two years to show that this is something He talks about all through His Word. But there are a couple of things that I don't think I've shared before that He brought to my attention. They've certainly been implied but I don't think I've ever shared it with you directly. If nothing else, this will be a good general refresher for us.

I'm going to post 5 scriptures for you. These 4 scriptures will open up dozens of other scriptures to you too because none of them stand alone. Each is repeated in many way all through the bible. So again, you'll see how true it is that the Lord wants us to be in control of our thoughts and feelings so we can have the Joy He intended us to have and of course so we can grow to be more like Him each day.

Ephesians 4:15 —Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. * 
 
We're all familiar with the above scripture but what we often don't realize is that this doesn't just apply to other people, it also applies to ourselves. God wants us to tell ourselves the Truth about things. He does not want us to accept lies about ourselves, others, Him, or anything else for that matter. We know it's a sin to lie right? God says, "do not lie" and that's pretty plain. But we often lie to ourselves and even about others. Although even Jesus warned us about calling other people names like "you fool!". How many times though do we say that, or something similar, about ourselves???? That is a lie. It's a sin. We are to speak the truth to ourselves and furthermore, we're to speak the truth "in love" to ourselves. So we're not to be telling ourselves things like we're stupid, dumb, no one likes us, everyone hates us, etc. After all, God loves us and we're very important to Him!
 
Nor are we to tell ourselves we can't do things, unless it's something obviously physically impossibly like "we can't fly without an airplane or something like that" lol What I'm talking about though is when we tell ourselves we can't do something because we're afraid of it. That's yet another lie. We can do all things through Christ! That's the truth! So we really need to be watching all our thoughts and feelings so that we're not making a mockery of God's Word.
 
Matthew 9:29 —Then he touched their eyes and said, “According to your faith will it be done to you”; * 
 
I simply chose the above scripture at random. The part I was looking for was simply the words "according to your faith it will be done to you". Why? Another word for "faith" is "belief" right? So He could have also said, "according to what you believe it will be done to you". Think about that a moment. When we hear something often enough, even a lie, we come to believe it. When we believe it, we act on that belief and it becomes a part of us. Our thoughts create our beliefs. I'm sure we've all heard this about children - that if a child hears someone tell them they're stupid often enough and long enough, sooner or later they'll really believe it and they'll begin acting as though they really are stupid. The child keeps hearing it, so they begin to think it, they repeat it to themselves, usually every time they make a mistake, until eventually they believe it. The Lord also puts it this way, "As a man thinks in his heart, so he is". Our thoughts create our feelings and beliefs which in turn create how we act. It's really amazing when you realize that according to what you believe about yourself, is what you're going to be. 
 
Do you believe you are a beloved child of God and that He has a plan for your life that He is actively working out for you every day? That He will provide for all your needs? If we're not thinking about God's Word and thinking about how He loves us and His plans for us etc. then we can't very well be living them can we? See how very important it is for us to be in control of our thoughts?
 
Proverbs 15:4 —The tongue that brings healing is a tree of life, but a deceitful tongue crushes the spirit. * 
 
The above scripture is another one we generally apply to others, as we should; but again, we also need to apply it to ourselves. When we speak the Truth to ourselves it brings healing to our hearts and minds and even our bodies. When we continue to repeat lies to ourselves, it makes us sick. It's sin and it literally crushes our spirit instead of building us up, which is what the Lord wants for us. We need to be careful and listen to what we're telling ourselves. 
 
We should never devalue ourselves, the situation we're in, or our hope for the future. We devalue ourselves when we say things like, "I never do anything right." or, "I'm stupid." We devalue the situation we're in when we say things like, "life is awful", or "I don't know why I even bothered getting out of bed, it's such a rotten day"; or "nothing is worth doing". We devalue our hope for the future when we say things like, "I'll never be any good", or "life if hopeless", etc.

Psalm 34:13–14 —keep your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking lies. *Turn from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it. *
 
We know it doesn't please the Lord when we speak or repeat a lie about or to others, but it also doesn't please Him when we accept or repeat lies about ourselves, our lives, our situations, or about our God, to ourselves. We're told in any number of scriptures that we're to pursue peace and that includes with ourselves as well. We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus, and that's our starting point. From there we become at peace with ourselves and then with others. The way we become at peace with ourselves it to pursue it...in other words we have to choose peace. As long as we're putting ourselves down or accepting lies about ourselves, we can't possibly be at peace, so we must take those thoughts captive and replace them with God's Truth.

1 John 4:4 —You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. * 
 
Jesus tells us that bad things are going to happen to us. He tells us this more then just one time, and God repeats that through out His Word. He never tells us that this life is going to be a picnic. What He says though is that He will always be with us and that He realizes just how weak we are. (He understands that much better then we are usually willing to admit it!) He says that it's OK that we're weak because that's how His strength and power are made perfect. He WILL take care of us! We're told over and over that He's bigger then any problem we will ever face and that with Him, we can overcome anything. Period. 
 
When we tell ourselves that we can't do something then, we're lying to ourselves again. When we say things like, "I can't confront other people", that's a lie. The truth is that we don't want to because we're afraid, probably because we're afraid that the person won't like us anymore. The world has tried to teach us that life should always be pleasant, but that's not true. Jesus told us it wouldn't be. It teaches us that everyone should like us and be nice to us, but that's not going to happen - look at how people treated Jesus! He tells us that they will treat us the same way. We just have to get our priorities straight and realize that what other people think about us isn't nearly as important as what God thinks of us. If we are doing His Will, then who cares what others think? We have Him, and He loves us! We need to remind ourselves that in Jesus, we're safe, loved, protected, watched over, and one day bound for eternal glory in Heaven.

Although I've often spoken of replacing the lies we tell ourselves with the Truth from God's Word, I don't think I've ever clearly explained that we can also argue with ourselves about it. For instance, if we're feeling hurt, say our feelings have been hurt by someone for some reason, when we realize that we're thinking lies such as, "I can't live without so and so", or, "I'll never get over this", we can not only replace that thought with the Truth, but we can also talk to ourselves about it and explain to ourselves why that's not true. We need to show ourselves that these thoughts simply aren't true. 
 
We often exaggerate the trouble we'll have or the danger we'll be in or whatever negative thing our feelings are saying at the moment because of how we've thought in the past. In order to overcome that, we need to tell ourselves the truth about that danger - "no, it's not the end of the world; it might be unpleasant, but we will survive; my life is what I make it with God's help and nothing is impossible with Him." We need to literally challenge our beliefs about things like that and and dispute them, telling ourselves the truth instead.

When our feelings are hurt we should not deny that, that would be a lie. What we need to deny are the parts that aren't true. Logically we know that how ever much it hurts, we WILL eventually get over it and get on with life. Everyone does. So while the situation may be unpleasant, it's NOT the end of the world, regardless of what it is. We don't deny that we hurt, or angry or whatever, we deny that we will allow that emotion to control us and remind ourselves that we are in control and we are not going to allow the pain to dictate our actions. 
 
Let me end by sharing something out of one of my books that may be helpful too:

‎Here's more truth to replace the lies that create anguish & leave us raw:
1. It’s true I’m feeling bad. It’s only unpleasant, however; it’s not the end of the world.
2.‎ It’s not the end of the world because I’m not letting it be. I'll allow some good healthy pain, but I won’t allow anguish, misery, woe, & disaster.
3.‎I’m in control here. God has created me as an emotional being, so I can expect to have emotions. But God has also given me the fruit of the Spirit: self-control. So I'll control my feelings & they can’t control me.
4. I am angry. I can, however, handle anger in a biblical, healthy manner. I don't lie to myself about this emotion & I don't try to squelch it or hold it in. I'm also not a person of temper tantrums. I choose self-control. Freedom from the lies you tell yourself 
 
Two major misbeliefs are:
1. God is not the source of life. Man is. ‎When we're despondent over loss, we're telling ourselves that the person or thing we lost is crucial to our lives & happiness. ‎The untruth lies in the fact that nothing & nobody but God is crucial to anyone. This truth is revealed in the 1st commandment You shall love the Lord & have no other gods before Him. ‎To ascribe the all-sufficiency of God to any person is idolatry, & the basis for idolatry is deception & misbelief. (James 1:16–17) T‎hose truly good & perfect gifts do not come from someone or something other than God.  
‎2. Since I lost X, my world has nothing of any significance in it. Experience bears out the deception here. Many of us tell ourselves we “can't live without” some person, object, scheme, or notion. Then this adored “whatever” is removed from our lives & wonder of wonders, we recover. 
 
A person can lose his/her health, reputation, vision, hearing, legs, hands, even family members, money, homes, physical attractiveness, life goals & plans & yet recover & go on living a wonderfully rewarding & meaningful life. When you suffer a loss, you're going to feel the sting; but the key to recovery is not to repeat that someone or something is of such importance that you cannot go on after losing it. You can go on. You are important. Freedom from the lies you tell yourself 

 Here's a link to the study, Taking Thoughts Captive for those who want to understand more about it.

****************************************************************
Originally Posted by catt
Nice. God has been teaching me this over the past few years.
I even got the intensive "workbook" over the last month.
Very good application of the Word of God.
I had lunch with my sister today. I was able to tell how
Jesus held my heart. Replacing lies with the truth, sustained
me over the past 3 weeks. For any one who doesn't know,
my medicine has been unavailable for 2 1/2 weeks. It made me feel
very sick. But Jesus was faithful to me in this hard time. He
had a hold of me and I knew it. Even if, my life seemed completely
out of control.

What workbook is that Catt? I wasn't aware there was one...

Originally Posted by Fearnot
Again this was so timely and exactly what I needed to hear. In a way, I am so amazed at how crushed I am about FH ending. I should have seen the signs but still I didn't really believe it would end. At least I know how much it meant to me.
Secondly, next Tue. I go to the free dental Van again. I will then have 4 teeth on the bottom, and maybe 8 on top. In a way my biggest fear is they will pull two of the very front top teeth. In some ways tho, I think it will be better ( not prettier, vanity is my main sin about this) but I will have less infection, pain, etc. And if somehow someway money falls in my lap, so that I could get dentures, well then, they won't have to pull a whole mouthful of teeth ( most will be already gone) only 4 on the bottom and 8 on the top at most. but by then ( when the money 'magically appears LOL) I may have even less teeth to pull because I may have gone a few more times to the dental van and it might just be a matter of dentures ( which sounds like an ugly word).
So your words about telling ourselves the truth. People maybe will speak to me and not run away in horror as I look more and more like a snaggle tooth bag lady. And then I realize how cruel I sound. No compassion for poor woman who cannot get dental care. I must have some warped beliefs when a person's lack of teeth makes me not see the beauty of the person, and only some missing teeth.
Furthermore, you pointed out, not only is that a cruel untruth about others, but I am being cruel to myself, thinking I will be so ugly noone will speak to me.
Well it is true, there are people like that. Scared of people with missing teeth. I have thought in the past that maybe they are drug addicts, and thus homeless and they are sick.
But they are important to God and they may be brilliant, humous, kind, loving, sweet....teeth or lack of teeth don't make or break those character traits.
And I started crying when you talked about losing someone and feeling you cannot live without them. I feel that way about Leonard. He does so many things for me ( I don't drive for example. never have...well I did for 2 years, but only would go a mile or so on back roads).
I am sorry if I highjacked the study, these are some real thoughts that went thru my head, but your words helped me realize the evil untruths I've been telling myself. Tho they may be some half truths weaved in, mostly not.
Anyway, you can see how timely this study has been for me, and I am so grateful for you commentary.

Dentures are great, if you get ones that fit which I always have; and that means going back lots of times to get them adjusted right after you get them as it takes awhile to get them just perfect for your mouth. But once you do, they're great! I'm on my second pair and hope it's my last. I got my first one when I was in my twenties. Back then they pulled all my teeth in one day (knocked me out for it) and I went three months with no teeth at all before i got my dentures. I wasn't saved then and I was quite vain, but had to get over it since I had no choice lol I had 5 children, one in kindergarten and one in first grade, so I had to walk them to school every day and pick them up. (I didn't have a car) I had to do the shopping, the laundry and everything any mother normally has to do, and do it all with no teeth. I'd thought about it before hand so I was prepared. You know how I got over it? I made plans for the same evening I had all my teeth pulled. I invited three friends (guys and gals) to come over and play cards with me after the kids went to bed. We played till two in the morning and had a great time! I remember that the doctor had told me to try and eat crackers as the salt would be good for my gums and it would help toughen them up for me too. So we ate crackers and played cards till early in the morning, and that helped me get over my fears of how others would react to me being toothless.

I found that most folks will react how you expect them too. So, if you go up to them and say, "hey, guess what? I just had all my teeth pulled on ____" and give them a normal smile, then they're going to act surprised, and grateful that you're willing to share it with them and not afraid to talk about it. In fact, they're going to admire you for being so willing to confront it up front. It'd be the same way if you just had some or most of your teeth pulled. When you do it that way, you take the focus off of how you "look" and get yourself and them over the awkward stage of not knowing what to say or do. Honestly, most people are too busy worrying about what they should say, to think about how you look. As for strangers that see you, again, I found that most react the way you expect them too. If you look ashamed, embarrassed etc, they're going to feel that way and ignore you, and wonder what's wrong with you. On the other hand, if you look straight at them, smile, not only with your mouth, but so your smile shows in your eyes, they'll be surprised and grateful and wonder who the nice lady is. (You should always smile with your eyes as well as your mouth.

From what you said though I sense that your concern might have as much to do with money as it does teeth. That it has to do with you thinking you're poor and that people that are poor look a certain way and act a certain way. You might want to explore how many ways you're rich. I was trying to find something I wrote about this and found this which is similar instead::

• If you have food in the refrigerator, clothes on your back, a roof overhead and a place to sleep ... you are richer than 75% of this world.
• If you have money in the bank, in your wallet, and spare change in a dish someplace ... you are among the top 8% of the world's wealthy.
• If you woke up this morning with more health than illness ... you are more blessed than the million who will not survive this week.
• If you have never experienced the danger of battle, the loneliness of imprisonment, the agony of torture, or the pangs of starvation ... you are ahead of 500 million people in the world.
• If you can attend a church meeting without fear of harassment, arrest, torture, or death ... you are more blessed than three billion people in the world.
• If your parents are still alive and still married ... you are very rare, even in the United States.
• If you hold up your head with a smile on your face and are truly thankful ... you are blessed because the majority can, but most do not.
• If you can hold someone's hand, hug them or even touch them on the shoulder ... you are blessed because you can offer healing touch.
• If you can read this message, you just received a double blessing in that someone was thinking of you, and furthermore, you are more blessed than three billion people in the world that cannot read at all.

You know what has helped me a great deal? It was something I heard one Sunday at Church when a missionary was speaking. He came from Africa I believe. Anyway, he told us just how these people lived. I'm sure many of you have probably heard this too as it's fairly well know these days. But in comparison to the majority of the world today, even those of us Americans who live at what we consider low, lower class or almost poverty level, are very rich in comparison to the rest of the world.

He asked how many of us had more then one pair of shoes at home, besides the ones we were wearing right then. Of course everyone raised their hands. He explained that most of the people there were very, very blessed to have one pair of shoes and most didn't.

He asked how many outfits we had in our closet at home, besides what we were wearing that day. People stopped to consider, and he told us that most of the people in the country he was preaching in, were very lucky to have one set of clothes, and those considered "rich" had one extra set they wore to church and special occasions.

He asked how many coats we had in our closets. If we had more then one and explained that the people there were very lucky if they had one and none of them had more then one.

He asked how many of us were sure we could have something to eat for lunch that day; for dinner? We all raised our hands. He said many of the people there were not sure. He asked if we'd be eating something we liked or if we'd have to eat something we rally didn't like, just so we'd have something inside us.... again explaining that those who ate, ate whatever they could get and couldn't be picky like we are.

He continued on asking about things like dishes, bedding, and other household items we all had plenty of. And of course continued to let us know that these folks didn't have these things either. They were doing well to have one plate or bowl per person and one cup and spoon and knife per person etc.

Then he got into the "big things" like TV's and electronics and of course these people had nothing like that.

I believe he ended with our homes themselves, asking how many of us had more then one room in our houses. We all did of course, and of course these folks didn't.

I've got to tell you that I was changed drastically by hearing that. It really hit me hard and showed me how selfish and greedy I was. I emptied out my closet of all the "extras" I had that I could, and gave them away. Even doing that, of course I still had more then enough and still do.

Now, whenever I find myself starting to get "down" about the things I think I lack, the things I wanted to have; the things that people here consider successful people have, or even many people have, I immediately remind myself of all of this and am once again ashamed of myself and ask the Lord to forgive me. Then I start thanking Him and praising Him for all the wonderful blessings He has given me.

I just checked a few sites to show the truth of this and that it wasn't some missionaries imagination. These pages were at the top of the search list.

According to the Department of Health and Human Services, the poverty line for an individual in the 48 contiguous states and Washington, D.C., was $10,830 in 2010. Compared to global measures of GDP per capita for 2010, an individual at the poverty line in the United States has an income in between the average for Lithuania and Seychelles, ranked 49th and 50th. This may sound less than ideal for those of us accustomed to the lifestyle and conveniences of the first world. But put differently, someone at the poverty line in the United States is in the top 14% of the global income distribution.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/26...-are-all-the-1



http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst...t-of-humanity/

There's a neat site called the global rich list that you can type your income into and see where you stand today in comparison to the rest of the world. I typed in $45,000 as a yearly income just to see what they'd say about that. It showed:


You’re in the top 0.37% richest people in the world by income.
That makes you the 24,759,564th richest person on earth by income.

Not bad for such a low income is it? Check your income here:
http://www.globalrichlist.com/ 

No dear, your views are not warped, they're just the lies the world has taught you, just like it's taught everyone else. The big difference is that you realize it and can change it, while most never do. Always remember, you belong to the Lord and He loves you and doesn't like to hear you, or anyone else say unkind things about you.

Originally Posted by catt
I called it a "workbook", because I have been
working this out in my life. It has been an intensive
course.
The book we are reading for women's bible study,
"A Confident Heart" by Renee Swoop, is addressing
the same issues.
God must really want me to understand and use this as a life skill.

Oh that's a wonderful book! Do you have the companion one called The 7-day doubt diet: A devotional companion for a confident heart?

Originally Posted by jtheb
If you have dentures put in immediately the gums fit to the denture and are OK for several years.
This is what I have done each time I have needed to lose a tooth.
Normally I have them filled. Last extraction at least forty years ago.

I've heard that's how they do it now, but they couldn't do that with me as I had a whole mouth full of teeth that they pulled all at once. 23 as I recall and my gums swelled up a LOT after the surgery so there was no way they could put the dentures in, but then they hadn't even made them yet so that didn't matter lol

Originally Posted by jtheb
Mine were done during the 1960s. I had four upper and five lower teeth removed. Not the lot.
Oh, ok, that would make a big difference.  But I've heard that they put the dentures in a lot sooner now days, but I would think that it would depend on the patient - how many teeth they had pulled, how many (if any) they had left, how quickly they usually healed, the amount of swelling, etc.
 
Originally Posted by Fearnot
This coming Tue the free dental van appointment will almost certainly mean they will pull another 3-5 teeth...that will leave with 4 teeth on the bottom and probably 8 on the top.
I will have to figure out some way of making some money ( go back to painting?) and save up for dentures. I need to search how much they cost so I can have an idea how many painting I need to paint (tho I can't be sure what they will sell for on e-bay.

One of my friends here was getting dentures about 10 years ago and I did some research for her and discovered that the price varies a great deal, so your best bet is to call everyone in your area that does them and get prices from them all, so you can make your best choice. Here, the prices varied by hundreds of dollars between dentists. Another variable was how much they did for that money too.  I'd never heard of it before, but what she wound up getting were called "temporary dentures".  She was supposed to wear those for a certain amount of time (can't remember how long now, only that it was somewhere between one month and one year) and then she'd get her permanent ones.  She did that because she thought it would be less expensive.  Turned out to cost her a whole bunch more though because she didn't realize that she'd then have to pay a bunch more money for the permanent dentures!  Sounded like a rip off to me.  My dentist here, makes the dentures himself and is very good.  I can't remember the exact price, but as I recall it was close to $1000 although I had insurance that paid for most of it so it wasn't a big deal for me then.  For that price, I got perfect dentures and he kept working on them (for free) until they fit me perfectly.  I went in about once a week for them to be adjusted till they were just right. That price also covered any repairs that might need to be done in the future too, although I've never had them fixed.  I got these back at the end of 1999, so they're 15 years old now...same age my first set was when I had him make me this set.  I don't plan on getting any more though.  I'm hoping they'll last me for the rest of my life.  But the dentists all say they're only supposed to be good for 5=10 years at most as I recall.  I remember how shocked he was when I went in to have him make these and he found out how long I'd had my old ones.  

Don’t forget to talk to the Lord about it and ask Him to provide the means for you to get the dentures and to help you find the perfect place to have them made….

Bible Study Chat # 31

Dear Lord, thank You for Your Word.  We ask today that You would guide us into Your Truth.  Open the scriptures to us and help us to apply them to our lives.  Thank You Lord.  In Jesus’ Name I pray.  Amen

OK, Let's start on chapter 6. I'm going to take this chapter slowly because it may hit some tender nerves for some people. So we'll just look at the first 7 verses to start with.

Job 6:1–7 (NIV)
Job
6 Then Job replied:

Now Job is going to reply to Eliphaz as he's the only one who's spoken so far, but Job's really talking to all three as he could tell the other two agreed with all that Eliphaz had said. (Remember how Eliphaz had made statements like the last one that all three of them agreed on these things?) In this chapter, Job is begging his friends to be more understanding toward him.

2 “If only my anguish could be weighed
and all my misery be placed on the scales!

Job felt that even though his friends were sitting there with him physically, that none of them understood what he was feeling or why. In many instances we hear people today say that others can't understand how they're feeling unless they've been through that same thing. This is actually quite true. For example, unless one of your children has died, you simply cannot understand what a parent goes through when their child dies. If you've never had a premature baby born deathly ill, you can't understand what mothers of preemies go through. If you've never lost a spouse to death, you can't understand it, etc.

If you're saved and a compassionate person, you can certainly try to understand what they're going through, and you can offer them sympathy and a shoulder to cry on, which can be a great help; but you'll never really know what they're experiencing unless you too have been through it. This is actually yet another thing the Lord does with our trials. He uses them to mold us into people who can comfort others who have gone through something similar: 2 Corinthians 1:3–4 —Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, *who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. * See? He's saying that when we are going through a trial, God comforts us, and as He helps us get through that trial, He also then encourages us to turn around and comfort other people who are going through the same kind of trial. The Lord knows that to truly understand something, we have to first go through it ourselves.

This is the kind of understanding and comfort that Job desperately needed from his friends and wasn't getting. Even though they hadn't been through anything like this, they could have at least tried to be understanding and comfort him. Instead, they turned it all into an exercise of logic and theology. Instead of a hug, they wanted to debate!

This is actually the reaction of many people to grief or any strong emotion, especially men. They don't know how to deal with emotion so they either try to ignore the emotions or turn it into a debate or lecture, just like Job's friends are doing.

3 It would surely outweigh the sand of the seas—
no wonder my words have been impetuous.

Job is trying to get his friends to look at his emotions and stop lecturing him. He just wants some understanding. So he tries to tell them that if his anguish and misery could be weighed, they would outweigh all the sand of the seas. Job says, because his misery is so great, so intense, that it's normal for him to be speaking so forcefully and incautiously.
This too is quite true for all of us when we're under great stress. We tend to just blurt out whatever comes to mind, regardless of whether or not it's true or even whether or not we truly think that way. For example, when someone is feeling very hurt and betrayed, they might blurt out that they wish a certain person was dead or would die. While that is how they're feeling at that moment, they would never normally say such a thing and generally once the emotion of the moment is past, wouldn't even seriously think it. Job is saying that this is what he'd been doing - just saying whatever came to mind at that moment; and he's still doing it. He can't help it at this point because he's actually in shock right now.

Another common example of this is when a child wants something really badly and for whatever reason can't have it. They'll often yell "I hate you!" to their parents and storm out of the house or into their room. While it always hurts the parent to hear that, they know their child doesn't really mean it. They know the child is only speaking out of hurt and if the parent's saved, they may also understand that it's the child's sin nature speaking, not their heart.

4 The arrows of the Almighty are in me,
my spirit drinks in their poison;
God’s terrors are marshaled against me.

After trying to explain to his friends how badly he needed sympathy and understanding because his misery was so deep and heavy, Job now tries to explain how bitter this suffering felt to him. What Job says here about God isn't true and is being said out of hurt, sorrow and bitterness. This is about how he "feels" not about what's true and what's not true. We know that God is perfectly just in everything and that He's loving, and merciful to all.

However, Job felt like he was a helpless target that God was shooting poison arrows at, and that the poison in the arrows were what was making him bitter. His friends were only making things worse with their words. He wanted them to understand how helpless he felt.

Here too Job says that He feels like God has become his enemy. He's used the arrows to signify the trials he was going through and said that the trials were so severe that they'd become like poison that was infecting his mind, so now both his body and mind were afflicted (stricken or sick).

Job is right in a way about that. Not that God is his enemy or doing that to him, but his mind HAS become poisoned and afflicted. Job blames God for it, just like we usually do too, but this wasn't God's fault or even Satan's. Job did this to himself. He's the one allowing these thoughts and he's the one who's dwelling on them instead of dwelling on God's love and goodness. While it's a normal reaction, it's normal because it's from our sin nature and we need to remember that. Often, we're our own worst enemy. It's one thing to have such thoughts but it's quite another thing to dwell on them and confirm them as though they were true..

5 Does a wild donkey bray when it has grass,
or an ox bellow when it has fodder?

Job asks his friends to consider that even animals will cry out when they're hungry. They don't cry out for no reason and neither does he. Job is hungry for love and understanding and he's not getting any.

6 Is tasteless food eaten without salt,
or is there flavor in the white of an egg

7 I refuse to touch it;
such food makes me ill.

Job is saying that just as food tastes better with salt and egg whites need flavoring, that flavoring and food goes together, so his trials and complaining go together and should be expected.

It looks like he's also saying literally that his food is tasteless to him so he won't eat. We'll see too that he becomes weak and this may very well be the cause of his weakness. If so, he's once again being his own worst enemy.

When we succumb (give in) to our feelings, we often wind up hurting ourselves emotionally and even physically. (by not eating etc). The Lord tells us that we are not to trust our feelings or be misled by them, yet that's exactly what Job is doing isn't it? Instead, the Lord tells us to stay alert and guard our minds and hearts (thoughts and feelings). I think we can see by what's happening to Job, why this is so important and just what our deceitful hearts can do to us when we don't take charge of them. Jeremiah 17:9 —The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? *

Let's continue to look at this in these two ways:
1. What Job is trying to tell his friends
2. How this is like what we tend to do and what God tells us to stop from feeling like this ourselves

 

Fearnot posted:

I just love how you help make some of the seemly (at first glance) 'tricky or hard to be sure what is being said or why....clear. As always thank you thank you, this is so helpful! And I sure understand what Job is doing, but even better, I have learn from you, how God says to take our thoughts captive instead.

Thanks for your encouragement Barbara!

 

Catt posted:

I had to laugh when I read his opinion of plain egg whites. I like my omelets yellow too.
Remember in the first chapter, Jobs disease, pamphigus,gives him bad breath.
The mouth is usually the first place for the blisters and subsequent
infections to start. That would certainly destroy any taste for food. And it would be
painful to chew or swallow.
This happened to my father, when he received chemo therapy for neck and throat cancer.
It was designed to kill epithelial cells. It just about killed him, he had such a bad reaction.
But God's hand was in it. He had a miraculous recovery even though he had less
than 20% of the recommended doses of radiation and chemo. Even the ENT Dr. called it
a miracle of God.

 

That's awesome Catt! (I'm so glad you made it yesterday! I really enjoyed having you and Laura over for the bible study!)

I'd like to add a bit more about the first part of Chapter 6, since no one else has brought it up except in general.

First, in the previous chapter, Eliphaz had really come down hard on Job and said some pretty awful things to him. He said things to Job that would be considered harsh to say to someone who wasn't going through a hard time, much less to a person that had just suffered so much tragedy! Job's reply to him (and to the other guys too) in this chapter, is basically saying that he can't believe his friend would say such things to him.

I want to especially address Job 6:4 —The arrows of the Almighty are in me, my spirit drinks in their poison; God’s terrors are marshaled against me. *though as this statement is both true and false. We already know that God isn't doing this to Job, but the part I want to focus on here is the part that says, "my spirit drinks in their poison". This is the part that can be true. It doesn't have to be true, but we often allow it to be so, and Job is now a good example of what happens to us when we do allow this to happen.

One thing the world tells us is that "we can't help it". That sometimes things happen to us that are simply beyond our ability to deal with. That is absolutely not true because the Bible tells us that God never allows more then we can bear. However, there's something about that statement that most of us tend to forget. We tend to think that it means God won't allow more then we can bear on our own, and that's not what it means. God wants us to rely on Him, not on ourselves. So our next thought is that when things get to heavy for us to deal with that we should lean on Him. Well, that's certainly better than nothing, but it's still not really what God wants. He wants us to be relying on Him and His strength ALL the time, not just when things get tough.

What I'm saying then is that nothing can happen to us in our life that God is not completely aware of and able to deal with completely too. Therefore since we're to rely on Him and His strength, there is literally no situation that we can't deal with. Regardless of what the world will tell us, God says that His strength, His power, is made perfect in our weakness. The weaker we are, the less able we are to handle something or cope with something, the more obvious it will be to us and others that He is handling it through us when we rely on Him.....IF we rely on Him. This brings Him glory, and increases our faith, among other things.

So, when the world tells you that you can't handle something, just let them know that you're fully aware of your limitations and so is the Lord, but that you're also fully aware of God's power and might and that He is perfectly capable of dealing with the situation through you.

Now, to address the poison in the arrows, the poison is of course our thoughts about what we're going through, have been through, or whatever. Again, Job's a great example of how we turn events in our lives into poison that infects us and spreads and continues to multiply itself in our thoughts, feelings and imaginations. Look at what happened to Job: he lost his wealth and means of support and his children and then his health. There was and is nothing wrong with grieving over our loss (within reason - as long as we're not blaming God or forgetting that we don't grieve the way the world does because we have hope they don't. ) But Job's not doing that anymore. Sometime, probably as he listened to his friend put him down, he began allowing his feelings of loss to dictate his thoughts instead of the other way around, and at the same time he began to quit looking for anything good. He literally focused on each bad thing that had happened, and in trying to put his feelings into words, started making them bigger then life. Consequently his thoughts grew darker and darker, which caused his feelings to get darker, which caused his thoughts to get darker, which caused.... see what I mean? It's a vicious circle.

Notice that I spoke of the thoughts and feelings as being "dark". I did that on purpose, not only because it truthfully describes them but also so we could more quickly recognize who/what is behind those kind of thoughts and feelings. Who is the prince of darkness? That's right, Satan is! Our Lord brings us into the Light and wants us to stay there. When we're in the dark, it causes our hearts, minds, and bodies to get sick, it makes us depressed, causes us to avoid other believers who could help us, we become isolated, we want to be alone, which of course is only going to make us worse. In the dark, those bad thoughts and feelings keep growing like some kind of fungus or infection and really, that's what they are. When we bring them out into the Light of the Lord though, they begin to shrink back to normal size, to the size they really were to start with. Then, the more we focus on the Lord and His Word, like we're supposed to, they get smaller and smaller because now, compared to Him, they're nothing! Greater is He who is in us, then he who is in the world! (I'll leave some scriptures about this at the end for us.)

Any kind of thought or feeling that we want to be alone, or hide something, or causes feelings of fear, anxiety, stress, confusion, etc, is not of God or from God. God is a God of love, mercy, forgiveness, peace, order, righteousness, etc. He doesn't want us to hurt, He weeps with us.

Job didn't know God the way we do. He knew that God loved him and didn't think that He had forsaken him, but couldn't understand why God had allowed these things to happen to him when he'd been obedient to Him all his life. It sounds a lot like us at times doesn't it? Job wanted to know "why?". His friends were sure it was because he'd sinned but that just made Job angry and more hurt because he knew he hadn't sinned. He wasn't claiming to be sinless by any means, but simply that he wasn't living in any known unrepented sin.

We can finish this with the rest of the chapter tomorrow.

Acts 26:17–18 —I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them *to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’ *

John 3:19–21 —This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. *Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. *But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” *

John 8:12 —When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” *

John 12:35 —Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. The man who walks in the dark does not know where he is going. *

John 12:46 —I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. *

Colossians 1:13 —For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, *

Bible Study Chat # 30

Originally Posted by catt

Here are my thoughts.
Job 5:9 God controls the weather. All of it.
5:11 "He sets the lowly on high"
Shepherd boys become kings. Everyone, even
princes start as babies. A lowly Galilean is revealed to be the prince
of peace and Lord of Lords. A Roman torture device, becomes
a symbol of salvation.
Why would mourners need to be lifted to safety?
No jumping on the funeral pyre or in the river.
He keeps grief from becoming depression.
12+13. Crafty--Does not mean needle work or knitting.
God protects us all the time. Even when we are unaware.
I think it is kind of him. I don't want to know about every evil.
We only need to concentrate on Him.
14. Darkness at noon - This did happen to Paul in Acts.
He was struck blind and Jesus did let him know his error.
15. Sword in their mouths. In those days false witness
could get you executed. I love the way you said,"He protects us from
those who think they are so smart."
El Shaddai
God Almighty
The Strength of God over coming evil words.
Evil words are what Job's friends were tempting him to say.
Had you not pointed it out, I would have missed the irony.
I was tempted to cuss on the phone with my sister.
She said, "Go ahead and say it. It will make you feel better."
So, I did it. It did not make me feel better and it took me
weeks to get that word out of my internal conversation.
I am practicing overcoming the everyday misconceptions
in my own mind. I am so thankful God has given me his word.

 

What you said about your sister, immediately reminded me of this scripture: 1 Peter 4:3–5 —For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. *They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you. *But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. * They don't understand why we don't enjoy swearing (or other sins) or why it doesn't make us feel better like they think it does them, and so they try to get us to join them. They know we used to be like them and they don't understand why or how we've changed. In fact, they think we changed ourselves since they don't understand that the Lord gave us an entirely new nature that isn't pleased by those kind of things. When we refuse to join them and continue to refuse, they begin to mock us and taunt us and even become nasty toward us because every time they see us or hear from us, it reminds them of their sin and they hate that. We don't even have to say or do anything...because the Holy Spirit within us is the one who's actually convicting them.

So when they do start reacting that way, remember that it's not "you" they're angry at, it's really themselves, although they may not consciously realize it; and it's not you that they're fighting, it's really the Holy Spirit. Yet another reason the Lord wants us to pray for them when they hurt our feelings -pray for their salvation I mean.

You asked, "Why would mourners need to be lifted to safety?" (v11) and I'm not sure if you were asking me or if you were asking yourself, but in case you were asking me, I'll answer... Consider what Eliphaz was talking about to Job...what he wanted Job to do and you'll see the answer. Mourners in this context are those who are mourning over their sin, and when we do that, God saves us by granting us first salvation if the person isn't saved yet and then, even for all, He grants us forgiveness, saving us from guilt and shame as well as our sins. So this was another jab at Job to get him to admit that he'd sinned. Let me share a few other verses that are similar here:
Matthew 5:4 —Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. *
James 4:6–10 —But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.” *Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. *Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. *Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. *Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up. *

 

Originally Posted by Fearnot

It really helped me because it dealt with certain things in Job that I would always be confused about. Like I never exactly understood why Eliphaz was saying that Job should play let's make a deal ( sort of) with the Lord.
I will repent and you will give me all sorts of blessings. But even more so how it so clearly applies to the prosperity or word of Faith gospel. Definitely some aha moments. Thank you.

 

I'm glad it helped Barbara.

Bible Study Chat # 29

I should have been doing this with you from the start to help you get in the habit, but I just plain forgot since I've already done this earlier before I began my study time. That being said, though, let's pray before we begin: Father, thank You for Your Word and for giving us eyes that can see and minds that have been opened to understand. I ask that You would be our guide today as we continue our study of Job and lead us each to whatever it is You would have us learn this day. Please open Your Word to us, give us understanding and then bring it into our minds and thoughts throughout this day so we can reflect on it with You. Please also write Your Word on our hearts so that we will never forget it. Thank You Lord! In the Name of our Savior, Jesus Christ I pray. Amen.

OK, let's look at the rest of what Eliphaz said to Job. I'm going to include verse 8 again as without it we won't get the reason he's saying the rest. Keep in mind as you read that Eliphaz is assuming that Job has sinned deliberately and because of that, God has punished him with all trials he's been going through.

Job 5:8–27 (NIV)
8 “But if it were I, I would appeal to God;
I would lay my cause before him.

So Eliphaz is telling Job that he should appeal to God for help for all the following reasons:

9 He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed,
miracles that cannot be counted.
10 He bestows rain on the earth;
he sends water upon the countryside.
11 The lowly he sets on high,
and those who mourn are lifted to safety.
12 He thwarts the plans of the crafty,
so that their hands achieve no success.
13 He catches the wise in their craftiness,
and the schemes of the wily are swept away.

Paul quotes the last part of what Eliphaz says in this verse in 1 Corinthians 3:19 —For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”; * This does not mean that everything Eliphaz said to Job about God was correct, it means that it was all correctly, and accurately recorded. Just like we know that God does not condone polygamy, even though scripture records the fact that many of the patriarchs practiced it. Paul confirms that this particular sentence that Eliphaz said is true about God, but that does not mean that Eliphaz is applying this truth correctly about his friend Job. Do you understand what I'm saying?

14 Darkness comes upon them in the daytime;
at noon they grope as in the night.
15 He saves the needy from the sword in their mouth;
he saves them from the clutches of the powerful.

The words, "sword of their mouth" is translated in a number of different ways in various version. Let me share what some of the other meanings of this phrase are in the original language: cutting words, lies, and slander. So it's actually saying God saves the needy from the cutting, harmful words, the lies and slander of the wicked who think they're so smart; and He saves them from the powerful hold they have on them.

16 So the poor have hope,
and injustice shuts its mouth.

So because of all the things that God does for us, all those things from verse 9 through 15, the poor have hope because they know that God is just and will work things out in the long run so that justice will be done. I also looked up the word, "poor" here and while it can mean someone who has little money, it also refers to those who are weak, and those who have little status in the world.

17 “Blessed is the man whom God corrects;
so do not despise the discipline of the Almighty.b

b Hebrew Shaddai; here and throughout Job
El-Shaddai - “God Almighty” or “God the All Compassion” or “God
of the mountain”. Once again Eliphaz insists that Job's sinned deliberately and God is punishing him and if he'd just confess his sin and get it over with, then, in the next verse, Eliphaz says that God would heal him. This is very typical "Word of Faith" or "prosperity Gospel" false teaching today. It's false in that they believe, like Eliphaz did, that if someone is not healed it must be because they're living in unrepented sin and/or do not have enough faith in God. We know better then this for the Bible tells us over and over again that sometimes God doesn't heal us for a number of other reasons, so we must simply trust that He loves.
18 For he wounds, but he also binds up;
he injures, but his hands also heal.

Eliphaz wanted Job to make a bargain with God by confessing his sins so God would restore all that he'd lost. If Job had done that, it would have disgraced God and vindicated Satan, because that's exactly what Satan had said was the only reason people worshiped God for in the first place...to get something from Him!

19 From six calamities he will rescue you;
in seven no harm will befall you.

“in six troubles,” yes even in “seven.” This is often called the X+1 formula and always expresses the idea of completeness, In this case it's saying in effect that "in all troubles" the Lord would deliver those who responded positively to his chastisement. The other one that immediately came to my mind that we're all probably familiar with is from Proverbs 6:16 —There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: * which is saying "all the things God hates" It is a way of stating something indefinite, in other words, the list isn't complete. Just like in the verse in Job it's showing that the list there isn't a complete list of troubles.

20 In famine he will ransom you from death,
and in battle from the stroke of the sword.
21 You will be protected from the lash of the tongue,
and need not fear when destruction comes.

Notice that the "lash of the tongue", meaning things like gossip, lies, and slander, are considered to be every bit as bad as war, disease, and hunger.

22 You will laugh at destruction and famine,
and need not fear the beasts of the earth.
23 For you will have a covenant with the stones of the field,
and the wild animals will be at peace with you.

This just means that even creation and the animals will cooperate with him.

24 You will know that your tent is secure;
you will take stock of your property and find nothing missing.
25 You will know that your children will be many,
and your descendants like the grass of the earth.

Isn't this insensitive! It's hard to believe that anyone, especially a so called "friend" would say something like this to someone who had just lost every child they had! And yet, friends do this to each other all the time just as Eliphaz is here. He's telling Job that if he repents and confesses his sin that God will restore his health, his wealth, and give him many more children, and in the next verse he adds that Job will then be given a very long life.

26 You will come to the grave in full vigor,
like sheaves gathered in season.
27 “We have examined this, and it is true.
So hear it and apply it to yourself.”

Finally he ends his speech by saying that he and the other friends have discussed all this together and verified that it is all true, so Job would be wise to accept this truth and apply it to himself. But Job knows they're wrong about him. He hasn't sinned and has nothing to confess about his behavior before all these troubles came on him.

I know that many of us who live with pain daily have run into other believers who have told us something very similar. Generally they tell us that thee must be sin in our lives or else God would have already healed us; either that or that we don't really believe God like we say we do. This is really hurtful to us when it happens and can leave some very deep wounds, so I imagine it did the same to Job as well.

While much of what Eliphaz says about God in this chapter is true, he made two mistakes. First, as we've said, while sin can be the cause of our trials, it most certainly is not the only reason we have trials - there are many reasons God allows them to happen. Secondly, rather then comforting Job, the way the Lord wants us to, he made Job feel even worse then before. (Romans 12:15; 1 Corinthians 12:26; Galatians 6:2)

To give Eliphaz and the other two friends the benefit of the doubt, we could say that he had no way of knowing that Job hadn't sinned. However, that's not entirely true. Remember, he was a good friend of Job's and knew him well. While anything is possible, it's unlikely that a man of such upstanding character as Job had had for so very many years, would suddenly have begun to live in unrepented sin. Plus, if he had begun to live in sin, since he was a well respected citizen and an elder who helped judge important cases in his town, everyone would have known about it and it would have been talked about constantly. That didn't happen. There were no rumors that Job was living in sin, so Eliphaz really had no reason at all to suspect this other then his own misunderstanding of God and His Word.

I'd also like to make one other point about this. While Job had not been living in unrepented sin, he was a sinner as we all are. So if we were asked if Job had sinned the day these terrible things had happened to him, we'd have to say, "yes". We'd have to say that because each one of us sins every single day. It's impossible for us to get through a whole day without sinning. But that's very different then living in unrepented sin. Our daily sins are covered by the blood of Christ and so were Job's. No, Job didn't know the Name of our Lord, but He believed and knew that God would provide a Savior who would save him from his sins, therefore the blood of Christ covered his sins as well.

Most of our daily sins are sins that we're generally unaware of, they're unintentional. In the OT God made provisions for even unintentional sins (Lev 4) so that people could make a sacrifice for them and be forgiven for any sin they were unaware of. This is the sacrifice Job used to make regularly even for his children, remember? The Law said that if you later realized you'd sin, in other words, if you later became aware that something you'd done was a sin, then you had to go make another sacrifice to acknowledge that you were now aware of it and needed forgiveness and your sin would be forgiven. We know that Job made a practice of sacrificing to the Lord for forgiveness so we can be sure that if he'd been aware of any sin in his life, he would have repented of it and asked for forgiveness with a sacrifice.

What God was teaching them through these sacrificial laws was that ignorance isn't bliss. This applies to us as well. God tells them and us that just because we don't realize something is a sin, it doesn't make us innocent. If we do it unknowingly, we're still guilty. I know...it doesn't sound fair. Look at it this way. We're all familiar with the law of gravity. When we jump off a chair, we're going to fall down and land on the floor. Because of gravity, we will not float in the air when we jump. That law works even with an infant or toddler that isn't aware of it. It's the same with sin. Just because we don't know that we've just gotten our clothes dirty from sin, doesn't change the fact that we have. When we realize this and remember the definitions of sin, we begin to realize just how sinful we really are. Let's look at the definitions of sin that God gives us in His Word:

Definitions of sin:

Whatsoever is not of faith is sin Rom. 14:23.
Romans 14:23 —But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin. *

The thought of foolishness is sin Prov. 24:9.
Proverbs 24:9 —The schemes of folly are sin, and men detest a mocker. *
James 4:17. All unrighteousness is sin
James 4:17 —Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins. *

John’s epistle defines sin as lawlessness and defilement:
1 John 5:17 —All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death. *
1 John 3:4 —Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. *

1 John 1:9–2:2 here it views it as defiance.
1 John 1:9–2:2 —If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. *If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives. *My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. *He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. *

Sin is basically a matter of the will. For us to assert our will against God’s will is rebellion & rebellion is the root of sin. It's not simply that sin reveals itself in lawless behavior but that the very essence of sin is lawlessness. ‎From the time of Adam and Eve, replacing God with self has been at the root of all sin.

God wanted the people, including us, to understand that ignorance wasn't bliss. We were and are guilty of sin whether we realize that what we're doing is a sin or not. However, God will not punish us for a sin we are unaware of. This is where Job's friends got things wrong too. While Job was certainly a sinner, just as we are, he was saved just as we are, and therefore considered righteous by God. His sins were forgiven and he was not knowingly sinning. Therefore the trials he was going through had nothing to do with sin. We know that the reason he was going through this was because of Satan, but of course neither Job nor his friends could know that. Does all that makes sense to everyone? (I'm sorry, but I've been interrupted so many times while writing this that I may have lost my train of thought...)