Bible Study Chat # 28

Originally Posted by anna

I have joined this Bible study and find it encourages me, as I will read all of it. I know I can ask questions or comment, but for now I just enjoy reading.

It's great to have you Anna! I hope it continues to encourage you!

 

Originally Posted by eva_from_greece

I actually didnt see it as a vision when I was reading this. It looks like more like an example to me. Like exaggerating a bit to emphasize. I didnt see it that way from the start. Making up a vision its closer to what I see in this. But its not certain.

The bible says it was like a dream which is also what I said. A vision is generally considered to be like a "waking dream". So saying that Eliphaz had a dream or vision is certain, what's not certain is whether or not it was from God or just his own thoughts in a dream or vision or even from Satan.

Originally Posted by catt

Job3: 1-26
"I'd be better off if I was never born." "I'd be better off dead."
I have heard this as an argument for abortion.
They would
be better off if they never had such bad parents.
.....................they didn't have to suffer with a sickness.
.....................they were not girls.
.....................not poor.
and the list goes on.
I talked to a nurse once. She told me a married couple had
aborted a baby because they wanted to build an addition on
their house!
In Job's case, God would not be able to reveal his Glory, if he had
never been born.
It is like the man born blind in the gospels. Jesus' deciples wanted to know, who
sinned. But Jesus said no one. It is so the Father may be glorified. Then Jesus healed
him. When the unbelieving Pharisees interegated the man, he said I may have been born
blind. But I know who healed me.
It is hard to trust God sometimes. Especially if, you get a bad message
from people around you. 'You never do any thing right.' 'Your a bad wife, daughter
mom etc.' When I was depressed, I heard "You don't deserve to live." But I
knew Christ died for me and he paid the price so I could live forever. I held onto
that like a life raft in the ocean. Jesus went through something awful,
so I could recieve something awesome.

 

Amen Catt! Bless your heart! I know what you mean about hearing "you don't deserve to live" when you're depressed. I'm so glad that you remembered the truth though!

And that's a very good point you've made as well and very true for all of us. We tend to hear and see whatever we're expecting or looking for. In other words, when we're depressed and feeling sorry for ourselves, no matter what anyone really says to us, we're going to find a way to view it negatively. When our general mental/emotional condition is positive - feeling good about ourselves, then that's what we'll find in other people's words and actions toward us. When we've decided to believe that people in general or just certain people are generally out to get us and hurt us, then no matter how kind and loving others may be to us, or for how long they're that way, we'll see the smallest slip as evidence that they too are out to get us. Sadly we'll often even make things up to "prove" it. Not consciously, but instead, we'll see or hear something, take it the wrong way and link it to something else we've remembered and voila, there's our "proof". It's really amazing what our minds can do. We can convince ourselves of just about anything at all and we do it all the time, often without even realizing it. That's another reason the Lord wants us to be alert about what we allow in our minds, so we can avoid Satan's schemes.

We convince ourselves and others of things that aren't true all the time. We do it by constantly telling ourselves and/or others the same lies over and over again until they're believed. This is why it's so important to be aware of our thoughts. For example, if a someone hears others say that they're dumb or stupid or just tells themselves that, and begins to accept it, they're eventually going to filter everything they hear through the "fact" that they're dumb and stupid, or the "fact" that no one loves us, or whatever it is we've focused on.

That's what Job is doing. It didn't start out that way, but that's how it ended. This is a great lesson for us because it shows us how easily we can fall into this trap of Satan's. So let's look at what Job did and see if we can see where he went wrong.

When all this first happened, he accepted it as coming from the hand of a God who loved him and responded by praising God and worshiping Him. He didn't praise God for the bad things that had happened, but just for being God who had given him a great deal even though he'd never deserved it: Job 1:21 —and said: “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I will depart. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised.” * Then Satan afflicted Job with a horrible disease and pain and still Job didn't succumb to self pity. Job 2:10 —He replied, “You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?” In all this, Job did not sin in what he said. * So far, so good. Job still understood at this point that bad things happen to good people and that doesn't make God men or bad, it just means we live in a broken world.

Then what happened? Job goes to be with the lepers and his friends show up. They all sit around grieving with him for a week without anyone saying a word. It's after this week of silent grieving that Job begin to speak and has obviously gone way downhill for we can see that he's now totally depressed, so what happened?

Job had stopped living. Up till then, he'd continued his life, living day by day trying to do what he could to put his life back together and deal with his grief. He did not spend all his time sitting around doing nothing but dwelling on all the horrible things that had happened to him. I'm sure he thought of them, he wouldn't be able not to, but he also was up doing things and living his life which stopped him from just dwelling on the bad. He had to plan what to do to support himself and his wife after all.

After he got sick, he simply gave up. Probably not right away. He was probably just in too much pain to do much and because he'd been worn down mentally and emotionally already, he allowed this to be the proverbial "last straw". So he stopped putting on clean clothes each day, he stopped bathing regularly, he stopped doing everything. He just sat and dwelled on all the bad things that had happened recently. As he did that, he also began to think of every single bad thing that had ever happened to him in his whole life and added those things to his list. How do I know that? Because it's what we human do. it's how our sin nature works. Each thing he added to his mental list, just made his burden that much harder to bear, that much heavier, until he began to feel that he'd be better off dead or to have not ever been born. And so here he sits, having fallen for one of Satan's schemes that he uses on us all the time.

What could he do to pull himself out of this? He could get up and start living again. Starting with getting dressed each day if nothing else. He could start focusing on the good things that had happened to him and all his good memories. He could remember the truth about the God he knows and tell himself that all the time. He could take his negative thoughts captive and replace them with God's truth, etc.

Does everyone see the things that caused Job to be in this frame of mind?

 

Originally Posted by Fearnot

This explaination came at the perfect time for me, as I like Job am suffering more than ever right now. There are several difficult roadblocks for getting back up and living but I am trying to find some solutions and at least now I know what is going on. Thank you as always!!

I think most of us could say that Barbara. I know I can and I'd imagine that most others can too, especially those of us who live with pain, just as Job was at that time. Something we all need to keep in mind concerning this is that we tend to expect a lot more from ourselves then we would others, and sometimes more then God expects from us, while at the same time, we'll try to wiggle our way out of other things that we know God expects of us. So, what we need to do is remember that we can't rely on our feelings or human reasoning, and ask the Lord to guide us and show us what we can reasonably expect from ourselves and then help us take steps toward that goal.

We also need to be careful not to compare ourselves and our situation with that of other people and not to assume that others know better then we do what we should or shouldn't be doing. In other words, our goal is to please the Lord, not ourselves, and not other people. And, since He's our Father and the only one who knows the Truth about what we can and can't do, and what we should be working toward doing or changing, we need to talk to Him about it and rely on Him to work His Will in us to effect the necessary changes. See the scripture on Phil 2:13 that I'll post. I've posted it in a number of different translations so we can get the full understanding of what it's saying.

Philippians 2:13 (NIV) —13 * for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. *
Philippians 2:13 (ESV) —13 * for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. *
Philippians 2:13 (NLT) —13 * For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him. *
Philippians 2:13 (HCSB) —13 * For it is God who is working in you, enabling you both to desire and to work out His good purpose. *
Philippians 2:13 (NET) —13 * for the one bringing forth in you both the desire and the effort—for the sake of his good pleasure—is God. *
Philippians 2:13 (KJV 1900) —13 * For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. *
Philippians 2:13 (NKJV) —13 * for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. *

As you can see, when we ask Him, the Lord will give us the desire to do what He wants us to do and then give us the ability, strength, and whatever we need to do it. The thing we have to remember about that though is that He gives us the ability, strength, etc to do it, when we take that first step of obedience, not before. As a physical example of this, it's like as soon as you agree to obey and lift your foot to take that first step, before your foot comes down on the floor again, He will give you what you need to do it. So when you first pick up your foot to obey Him, you're doing so in faith that He will provide what you need, and before you set it down, you receive it. See what I mean?